Kenyon Saws

**Bushmiller** · 14th July 2018, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rustyoldion

Bushmiller mentioned the Buck family and catalogues. I have not seen a Buck catalogue but the Buck and Hickman firm produced very large volumes which are certainly used by collectors on this side of the pond. I have 1923, 1935, 1953 and 1964 versions. Simon Barley does have rather an advantage in that he is a trustee of the Hawley Tool Collection in Sheffield that owns probably the largest collection of tool catalogues anywhere.
Attachment 439130 Attachment 439131

Rusty

I had meant to say Buck and Hickman. When I lived in the UK I used to help out one of my cousins who had a hardware store. An old fashioned type of establishment where you bought nails by the pound. One of his major wholesalers was Buck and Hickman down in the East End.

Some people have told me that they leave the saw plates out in the hot sun before setting them. I accept that we have a slight advantage there in that our sun is hotter than your sun

. Having said that, I have never tried it: Never had to try it, with one exception: I had a Robert Sorby panel saw and I broke several teeth before giving up in disgust. It too was the Kangaroo brand. It seems Sorby had a significant market in the antipodes and pandered to us.

Treasure or Trash?

I worked out at a later date that the Sorby firm survived until about the mid 1930s. In fact I have just remembered that the gateway to the factory was removed and rebuilt, now residing at the Hawley museum.

Regards
Paul

**Rustyoldion** · 17th July 2018, 06:53 AM

Thanks for the tip Paul. Amazingly we are having a heatwave here, 28C today, so I will have to dig out a few cheaper saws to test.

The Sorby entrance is at the Hawley but to be honest looks a bit disappointing there. Oh for the days of real ironmongers and paper bags with 4 ounces of nails. I have a pair of scales that came from such a shop but now they just gather dust on a shelf.

Photo attached of a dovetail saw from Circa 1820. The name stamped is a firm of ironmongers trading in London prior to 1827 when the partnership dissolved. Maker was probably a London one but no idea which.

Regards

Rusty

**Bushmiller** · 17th July 2018, 09:36 AM

Rusty

Thanks for those pix.

The saw has a wonderful comfortable look about it. Interesting that the British saws tended to favour brass backs while their American counterparts preferred steel. I wonder why that was. Purely cost perhaps.

28 degs. Ummm. A nice mild spring day

. I sometimes joke that it is lucky we don't have days like that all the time or we would have a population here greater than that of China and India combined: Everybody would want to live here!

Regards
Paul

**Rustyoldion** · 20th July 2018, 06:12 AM

We just love to complain about the weather here. Normally summer is wet but we have had no rain for 6 weeks now so that is a new cause for complaint.

It does mostly seem to be the first quality saws with brass backs, second and third quality mostly had iron. Steel did not come into use here until well into the 1900s. The brass ones may well have been better treated and survived longer on average.

An iron back tenon by Buck London circa 1860 is in the photos attached.

Best wishes

Rusty

**Bushmiller** · 20th July 2018, 10:27 AM

Rusty

My impression is that the British favoured brass more than the Americans and when brass was used on the the British saws it tended to be massive. For example, with the Kenyon saws the depth and thickness of the brass backs was significant. Here are some measurements "

Large tenon saw (closed handle). Spline depth 1". Spline thickness .335"
Medium tenon saw (closed handle). Spline depth 7/8". Spline thickness .315"
Small tenon saw (open handle.) Spline depth 13/16". Spline thickness .279"
Dovetail saw (open handle). Spline depth .735". Spline thickness .267"

I tried to post a pic of a Robert Sorby No.35 with a spline that is 1 1/4" deep, but I seem to have lost the facility to post pix. I will have to follow that aspect up with the mods. Maybe I said something nasty about their favourite brand of handsaw!

. Of course, as time went on and the quality of saws in general declined, materials were skimped. Backs in particular became smaller. I noticed this just recently with the Simonds brand where I compared the exact same saw no more than ten years apart ( the age of the saw not when I compared) and the back was noticeably narrower. When, and if, I get permission to post pix again I will put something up in the Simonds thread.

Regards
Paul

**Bushmiller** · 20th July 2018, 10:35 AM

Rusty

On the subject of weather ( which is equally talked about here) where I live, about 200Km West of Brisbane, we have only had rain twice in the last five months (about 50mm in total) except this morning there is a light drizzle. I remember that back in the UK where rain is not normally scarce and the reservoirs are small, a dry spell brought on water restrictions very quickly and panic set in soon after.

Regards
Paul

**Gaza58** · 20th July 2018, 12:02 PM

My Dad was born in Millmeran ..Paul Never been there myself but he always has fond memories growing up there.
Gary

**Bushmiller** · 20th July 2018, 01:27 PM

Gary

He must have been the one that escaped. Actually, we like it here. Call in if you are ever passing through.

Regards
Paul

**Gaza58** · 20th July 2018, 01:46 PM

That would be great Paul.

**macg** · 20th July 2018, 04:53 PM

Gary

I see your in Rocky,

will you be attending the Rocky Swap on Sat. 4th Aug.
is it a good one for old rusty tool type stuff?

Graham

**Gaza58** · 20th July 2018, 05:57 PM

Hi Graham,
I didn't get anything last year but the year before I scored heaps of stuff..... Last year there seemed to be a lot of sellers that just purchased stuff at the previous swap meet and were trying to flog it off for a profit so things weren't that cheap..... Its a big one so you never know what you can find..... If you see a guy getting around with a Thornley cap on ...that will be me

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