Thread: Who is the real L.S.Barker ?

Hi Matty, I hope I can make a small contribution to the story of L.S. Barker. I look forward to your compilation of facts so far. I'm sure you have a lot to share. What isn't clear is who ran and owned the company after the founders death. If L.S. Barker took on manufacturing for McPhersons, did McPhersons take a stake in the company? As the biography of W.E. McPherson revealed, they took a stake in a number of local manufacturing companies (such as P&N) to ensure their survival.


It would be great to find some living relatives of someone from the company for some direct knowledge. I pulled the list of records from Vic Births, Deaths and Marriages. It seems Lot was a common name 100 years ago. There is more than one Lot Barker!


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There exist a birth, marriage and death certificate for L.S.F Barker and we learn his parents names, William Lee Barker and Janet Ann Eggleston, he was married in 1916 and that his birth certificate is from 1893 - some data quality issues somewhere!
I haven't pulled copies of the certificates as at $20 a pop I'm not sure they contribute too much more to the story at this stage.

Just for completeness in the thread, I thought it worth adding shots of a spindle moulder currently for sale on Machines4u.
It features the name cast in raised lettering but in a more modern font but in a single line.

Originally Posted by hiroller

Just for completeness in the thread, I thought it worth adding shots of a spindle moulder currently for sale on Machines4u.
It features the name cast in raised lettering but in a more modern font but in a single line.

It's a 1950's machine, my jointer has the same lettering, looking closely also this machine has a flat machined table with no groves or prevision for fences.
It has been used possibly for just curved or template work, good price too !!

Hiroller, I'm looking forward to getting all the information together, I my self don't have all that much to show, believe it or not your self and Camo had the biggest break through of all, I am still enjoying reading over the post again and again in amazement !!


Melbourne Matty.

Matty,

I am also loving the post, using the iPhone as we head down towards Melbourne (looking forward to catching up).

While I am down I hope to go to the state library, I had five min. last time I was in melbourne (when we went in to see the Ned Kelly display), from a quick search it looked like there might have been something on Stenner, but it was in archive. So if i get the chance I will see if they can provide any info on Barker, and maybe wolfenden (probably wont have too long though). I am open to ideas of what avenue to take to research the l.s. barker company (with the limited time I will have), I thought I might try to focus on finding the actual address at North Melbourne, and hopefully when it was moved, or see what is available in regards to who took over the company after Lot Barker, as if a close living relative is not available in the future, then perhaps a relative of the successor, may be able to help put the puzzle pieces together.

I tried to have a bit of a search in the car today for possible books, etc (I wasn't driving), and I found this book "A Review of McPherson's Proprietary Limited 1860-1944", I am assuming it was available to assist with the public listing? It might be a bit early to be of any help, but I was wondering if you had it, so it can be crossed off the list as a possible resource for information on L.S. Barker.

Matty definitely looking forward to your compilation of facts, if for no other reason to get a bit of a summary of how the pieces fit at the moment!

I was looking into the area of Lot Barker's will, and found this website PROVguide 68: Wills and Probate Records from 1926 » Public Record Office Victoria - Archives of the State Government of Victoria (so it looks like it would be possible to get a copy of the will)

Cheers,

Camo

P.S. I found it interesting that William Edward McPherson became popularly known as 'W.E.', however I think Lot Sydney Fobes Barker probably had better grounds for being referred to as L.S.

Can anybody tell me if L S BARKER manufactured chisel or Chain Mortisers, if so what is there current value?

Regards

Alan

It has been interesting reading trawling through Trove articles hunting down the real LS Barker. There was a Col. LS Barker, a WW2 army officer, and the other Lot Barker had a great story in the late 1800s, detailing the rescuing of dozens of families with his brothers after a huge flood in the Ovens River by felling trees, hollowing them out to make rough canoes then collecting the families off their roofs and depositing on high ground. It sounded like it was the first time that the Ovens had flooded since settlement so a big surprise.

It was also interesting to note that the real LS was present for the milling of one of the first Pinus Insignis plantations in Australia. Of course, we now refer to this as Pinus Radiata.

McPhersons still exist as a company and refer to their long history on their website. They may have a an archives officer who can assist. Maybe they have a full set of catalogues for reference!

Here is the time line so far guys, it does need a little refining but a nice body of work if I must say so !!
If I am wrong with any of my dates or information please say so....


1860 Thomas McPherson’s establishes as iron merchants.
1888 Thomas McPherson Passes away.
1893 (unclear) Lot Sydney Forbes Barker was born in Kilmore Victoria Australia, to parents William Lee Barker and Janet Ann Eggleston.


1890 Thomas McPherson’s company starts to import machinery from America and England to sell in Australia.


1913 McPherson’s become a proprietary limited company.
1916 Lot Sydney Barker marries Margaret Elizabeth Johnstone.
1916 Lot Sydney Barker Enlists to WW1 as a gunner at age 23 and ten months, and lists his occupation as an engineer.


1928 McPherson’s begin to manufacture the MACSON line of Australian made woodworking and metal working machines at the McPherson’s Machine Tool Works which were located in 392 Macaulay Road , Kensington.
1930 L.S.Barker was well established as making woodworking machinery, early Barker machinery shows a badge with “Manufactured by L.S.Barker” and a Collie Street North Melbourne address. “Use only Ball-bearing Grease” also.


1933 McPherson’s catalogue shows a line up of four MACSON woodworking machine’s available.
1937 McPherson’s catalogue shows a page line up of 3 MACSON machines, with an unbranded bandsaw and table saw on other pages.
1943 At some stage L.S.Barker starts to produce machines for McPherson’s initially under the Macson/Barker name and then later just the L.S.Barker name
McPherson’s just retaining the Macson name for their metalworking machinery.


1947 on the 12 December Lot Sydney Forbes Barker Passes away age 55
1947 L.S.Barker becomes a proprietary limited company.
1948
1949 McPherson’s catalogue lists some 10 Barker machines.
1951 McPherson’s catalogue does list L.S.Barker in their agencies page, with a North Melbourne Address and some 10 Barker machines.


1955 McPherson’s Catalog shows some 12 L.S.Barker machines
1954 In the employment section of the Argus news paper shows an advertisement for Turners wanted for work at L.S.Barker, and the address listed as Willis Street North Melbourne.


1960 McPherson’s Catalogue does list L.S.Barker in their agencies page, with a North Melbourne Address and lists some 16 Barker machines.
1965 L.S Barker at some time (unclear) moved to 660 Waterdale Road.
1966 McPherson’s Catalog lists some 14 L.S.Barker Machines.


1975 At some stage (unclear) L.S.Barker down sizes their Manufacturing sector and becomes Barker Woodwork Engineering 43 Mologa Rd Heidelberg West Victoria, and just specializing in servicing their wide belt sanders, general engineering and sales and repairs to second hand machinery.
2010 Ben Barker passes away and what remains of Barker Engineering is purchased by J.C.Walsh.

Originally Posted by hiroller

It has been interesting reading trawling through Trove articles hunting down the real LS Barker.

Hey all,


Hiroller, I totally agree, apart from the down reception areas (bloody Vodafone), I have been reading up on all the Barkers (I think we will likely miss something, as the paper scans are likely to miss read L.S. Barker), and it has been interesting to discover how much information can be discovered, given the time that has passed. Makes you wonder what might be available in 100 yrs for someone researching a person from our time (Facebook status update ).


Regarding the company L.S. Barker, I strongly suspect that if Mcphersons Ltd didn't have a major ownership of L.S. Barker before Lot's death, then they probably did after. At the time of Lot's death in 1947 sales for Mcphersons Ltd were a record 3,787,000 pounds, and by 1955 had reached a record of 12,010,949 pounds, an over 3 times increase in 8 years with diversity and acquisition seeming to be the game.

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The below article (1945), talks about labour and apprentice shortages in foundries. Matty I wonder if this may explain why it looks like 2 different designs existed (using the patterns already available due to acquisition)?

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The below (1956), talks of issues with import restrictions affecting access to machine tools, and credit tightening

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The below advert shows just some of the pies Mcphersons had there fingers in (1950).

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Some more (even earlier 1937), noticed the part about "Killrust" paint

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This gives a bit of history and timeline for mcphersons ltd (unfortunately not enough detail for us)

History of McPherson's Ltd. – FundingUniverse

I have a background in retail, so I used to deal with mcphersons reps on a daily basis, for those that don't know, you can be fairly confident that you are buying at least 1 mcphersons product every weekly shop, and most you won't know by looking at the label, they tend to take over a company, but maintain it's branding, I suspect this is what they did with L.S. Barker.

Cheers,

camo

Hi,

camo, nice find! Some real background there.

Matty, great start to the summary. I think it's worthy of it's own website with scans of the catalogues, photos and details of the history.
As to filling in the details. His wife Mararet's maiden name was Johnstone. I forgot to add it to my previous summary. His birthdate may also have been in 1893 according to Vic BDM.

Matty,

Time line is looking good. Hiroller is right about the DOB, it's a bit all over the place:

* 55 at death in 1947 according to death notice (you would have to think his wife would know his age so his DOB has to be between 13 December 1891 to 11th December 1892 (I think the math is right on that)
* Military enlistment states he was 23yrs 10mths on 8/11/1916. Based on this his DOB must be between 9/12/1892 and 7/1/1893.
* then as Hiroller pointed out also 1893

So that detail could be put down as unconfirmed at this stage.

cheers,

Camo

P.S. might pay for someone to check my between dates (didn't get much sleep last night)

Camo and Hiroller, I have made those suggested changes, thought i would do that before I loose the editing rights.
So thank-you, both of you have been real stars in all this research, its been amazing to say the least !!
Hiroller, you have mentioned it before, but after the death of L.S. Barker who did push on with the firm has got me curious also, it is mentioned the barker had a son, Lee Barker, and I'm wondering did he follow in Lots foot steps as a engineer/fitter and turner for his fathers firm, and was Ben Barker, the last owner, Lee Barker's son ?
And Camo, the McPhersons spin is very interesting, I would say at least 80% of the Barker machinery I have seen over the years had a McPhersons badge on it, which shows it was not in their best interest that barker closed its doors in 1947.
As for the relationship between L.S.Barker and McPhersons, I believe it was very close, McPhersons for many years supplied the Ajax bolts for Barker machinery for starters.
From what I can work out just looking at the machinery side of things, I think L.S.Barker dropped his own line of machinery some where in the 1930's and took on some of McPhersons line and redesigned the rest.
Some of the machine designs changed dramatically from the late 1940's into the 1950's.

Still so much to find out, I'm lovin it Guys !!

Melbourne Matty.

[QUCan anybody answer this questionOTE=Mobile saw mill;1670059]Can anybody tell me if L S BARKER manufactured chisel or Chain Mortisers, if so what is there current value?

Regards

Alan[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mobile saw mill

[QUCan anybody answer this questionOTE=Mobile saw mill;1670059]Can anybody tell me if L S BARKER manufactured chisel or Chain Mortisers, if so what is there current value?

Regards

Alan

[/QUOTE]

Hi Alan

Yes they did make a chain and chisel combination, second hand they can sell from $500 to $1.500 depending on condition.


Melbourne Matty.

Originally Posted by Mobile saw mill

[QUCan anybody answer this questionOTE=Mobile saw mill;1670059]Can anybody tell me if L S BARKER manufactured chisel or Chain Mortisers, if so what is there current value?

Regards

Alan

[/QUOTE]

Hi Alan,

You will generally get a better response in future if you create your own thread rather than hijack another thread.