Thread: At what point is a vintage chisel past restoring?

Most of the chisels in the photos look salvageable, the real worry is deep pitting on the 'back' - the side that is flat all over, not the 'front' - the side that has the bevel.

Starting backwards, pitting on the front just gets ground out with normal sharpening, if its a too deep or on a corner you just keep grinding until you reach sound metal - the chisel may wear out faster but its still a 'user'.

The pitting on the back is more of a problem as the back forms one part of the cutting edge, the bevel is the other. Depending on the construction of the chisel you can just flat grind the back until the pitting near the edge has disappeared (making the blade a tiny bit more wedge shaped overall) - remember Japanese chisels have a great divot out of the back, you just grind away the back when it gets too near the cutting edge to restore the shape. 'Modern' chisels that are a solid piece of carbon steel will have no problem with being ground back as long as you cool the blade regularly if using power tools, but really old chisels are made with a thin layer of carbon steel welded to a body of malleable iron - again like Japanese chisels - and you can grind away all the carbon steel if you get carried away. Since the chisels have been etched by rust & the acid you should be able to see the faint weld line and difference in metal colour between the carbon steel and its malleable backing so you know which are which when the etch has just been done.

Most of this is from various blog posts by Chris Schwarz and Andrew Cherubini on the Popular Woodworking site if you want to go looking for it.

Yeah.

Pitting in the back is the big problem. Dealing with it is a learning experience.

You need a flat and polished back for fine work.

If you're obsessed/young/fit/broke you can do it by hand with some abrasive plate or another.

You can only get the back right around 40mm from the edge at a min.

There are machine powered options if you don't have the patience or paw strength. Do a search.

Good luck with it. In the case of a box of shaggy dog tools, GB Shaw comes to mind: 'man doesn't own property, property owns man'

Originally Posted by bsrlee

Since the chisels have been etched by rust & the acid you should be able to see the faint weld line and difference in metal colour between the carbon steel and its malleable backing so you know which are which when the etch has just been done.

Interesting, is this the change in colour i am seeing perpendicular to the edge on some of them about 2/3rds along the blade back from the tip?

I've got some plate glass and wet and dry sandpaper ready to go, I'll pick out the ones i want to use and burn some elbow grease on them.

There are about a dozen with no makers mark on them and half a dozen chinese ones, are these worth doing anything with?

Some will end up on ebay, don't think i need eight 1/2" titan firmer chisels!

Laminated chisels come only from Asia as best I know.

If you're rehabbing backs by hand, W&D will give you, er, a deal of quiet time. When you've had enough of that, research here on better abrasives.

Originally Posted by rsser

If you're rehabbing backs by hand, W&D will give you, er, a deal of quiet time.

Too bloody right it will! Although I don't remember being quiet about it Ern.

And remember that the closer you get to the bottom of the pits and dishes - the job is only just beginning.

Originally Posted by rsser

Laminated chisels come only from Asia as best I know.

If you're rehabbing backs by hand, W&D will give you, er, a deal of quiet time. When you've had enough of that, research here on better abrasives.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Too bloody right it will! Although I don't remember being quiet about it Ern.

And remember that the closer you get to the bottom of the pits and dishes - the job is only just beginning.

haha yeah i have done one chisel and a couple of plane soles using W&D, bit of a slog. Maybe ill try flogging a few of the chisels as is on ebay and see i can afford a nice diamond stone or two :P

Sheffield chisels were made with carbon steel welded onto a wrought iron body pretty much until they stopped making wrought iron. The Japanese can still make them this way because they have some large stocks of good quality wrought iron - mainly old ship's anchor chains that have not been melted down as scrap as they have been here.

Yes, there would be a point on the flat back where there would be an observable change in the metal, and if they were badly fusion welded or badly corroded the join should be visible on the sides too - Roy Underhill has an old chisel he trots out on a few shows to demonstrate this, it was buried in a coal pile for years and the wrought body looks like weathered wood while the steel is a solid mass, just with big pits.

Originally Posted by rlenno

Howdy,

unsure at what point they arent worth the hassle.

These ones got the acid treatment, less than half of the box.
Any advice for someone undertaking a first time restoration project?

A word from the dark side.
Restoration and refirb are words hard core collectors prick up their ears at. As a user you are after a usable chisel and this gives you a very wide scope. Flat back, no bends, minimal pitting and a decent length of steel above the temper line. As a collector there is a bit more in it. If you are an antique focussed guy there's a few more considerations. You have to plan on the tool making 100 years old with a bit of honest wear and tear and a tool that largely looks like it did on ground hog day (out of the factory box) plus light usage and unadulterated patina. This means no vicious chemical treatment, no wire brush or sand paper episodes and only gentle abraision and museum wax to clean up. This stymies most stuff picked up left out in the weather for a few years, found under water or restored by your local dealer where shiny metal and gleaming brass reigns supreme. Be that as it may, Bergs and Titans and the like (which the oldest are around sixty seventy years old now) in "reasonable" condition turn up big bucks on the net so its worth cleaning them up for that alone. They won't make antique status though, but users and dealers understandably don't know or care and why should they? But there's a legacy hanging out there we should be conscious of. They only made Titans and Bergs for instance for thirty years. When they're gone, they're gone.

Yeah FF.

The apprenticeship has been defined by 'Scary Sharp'.

There are IMO better and more efficient sheet abrasives out there for manual and machine use than W&D and than diamond plates on HCS.

I learned this the hard way. Anyone on this track just needs to have good search skills, on this forum and others.

Unless you like a meditative engagement as I did, til I got bloody tired of several thousand to and fro on one back.

Originally Posted by Doggie

A word from the dark side.
But there's a legacy hanging out there we should be conscious of. They only made Titans and Bergs for instance for thirty years. When they're gone, they're gone.

This is one aspect that really appeals to me over buying new. You get a piece of history, that one person has used for a lifetime, and with a bit of time and care, can be used for another.

I'll do some further searching and reading before i embark on restoring 50+ of the things with W&D though

Originally Posted by rlenno

This is one aspect that really appeals to me over buying new. You get a piece of history, that one person has used for a lifetime, and with a bit of time and care, can be used for another.

I'll do some further searching and reading before i embark on restoring 50+ of the things with W&D though

You could try shifting the excess at the TTTG Tool Sale on 23th February -https://www.woodworkforums.com/f12/20...4/#post1745871

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

You could try shifting the excess at the TTTG Tool Sale on 23th February -https://www.woodworkforums.com/f12/20...4/#post1745871

Cheers
Peter

And shift the workload too....

I've picked out a dozen for myself to restore, will de-rust the rest and see if i can sell them. If i still lived in Sydney the TTTG sale would of been good, too far to go nowadays though.

they don't look too bad.

Yep, as stated pitting on the back can be a problem.

A coarse diamond stone can do wonders. I also sometimes use what I call a 'power lap' which is basically a large sanding disk ( rams head or shearers cloth) abrasive paper on it and it goes in the drill press at a low rpm ~40-50 (don't really recall - just something slowish). then you carefully apply the back to the rotating disk. I can get good results, but you need to take care.