Thread: Best 12' dinghy

I sailed that boat....scary tender! A little too much so, but an experience.

I think a GIS 12 would be as awesome as having a GIS 17/RAIDer!

--Clint

Hello Clint,

That Sandbagger seems to be a tender boat indeed and suited for certain conditions only (ie flat water). But it's shape is lovely.

Regarding a GIS12 and a GIS17: my thoughts exactly!!!

Best wishes, Joost

I've sailed with Dan (not in the Bagger!)...he is an incredible sailor.

Clint

Hello Clint,

I am quite sure that Dan's Bagger doesn't leave you much choice!

It seems to be a boat that, if you are able to learn to master it, will make you a very good sailor indeed. I like the fact that she requires so much balance to sail her. Her shoal draft board would lend itself for very good sailing on some of our Dutch waters.

A very intruiging design. Do you know how big her sail is?

Joost

Hi Joost

Daniel has offered to take lines off his hull. You never know we might take you know who into drawing them up?

Another shallow water boat you might like is the West Mersea Duck Punt.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zk_1k6hInM"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCLSxSl6_yk"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

I have a contact with the Duck Punt sailors.

Brian

When we look at the lovely old traditional type designs, my eyes go misty, but when I see a skiff on a full blooded reach, that really stirs me up.

Here's an old 12 footer with 5-up on Sydney Harbour:



And the new:



I would also put the Cherub up as a pretty exciting 12 footer:

Hello Woodeneye,

Those are spectacular photos of some very exiting boats!

Brian has started some very good threads both here on the sub-forum regarding designs & plans and on the Woodenboat forum related to dinghies in the 12 ft range. I do agree with Brian that size wise they are a good compromise for solo sailing. Due to their size, they are also a lot cheaper to build and rig, easier to find a good building place for, easier to store and easier to get in the water quickly.

We home builders always seem to be on a mission to find the boat best suited to our needs and it is always exiting when one stumbles upon something new and exciting like Dan Noyes' Bagger that is something out of the ordinary.

The market is full of clinker ply or traditionally build 12 ft boats(by the way, I love the looks of the 12 ft international dinghy of which Ralph has posted some very nice pictures on this forum) designed by some great names.

When looking however for something of easier construction but having good looks and of traditional appearance that offers fast and capable sailing without being too exiting; an all-rounder offering performance in a broad range of conditions but that handles easily that provides good sailing for a large audience from beginners to experts, there seem to be significantly less options available…

Best regards,

Joost

Originally Posted by Joost

When looking however for something of easier construction but having good looks and of traditional appearance that offers fast and capable sailing without being too exiting; an all-rounder offering performance in a broad range of conditions but that handles easily that provides good sailing for a large audience from beginners to experts, there seem to be significantly less options available…
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Well said Joost. That's really what the thread is looking for. A recent post might have found it, a class I do not know here in the UK but 10,000 were built in the US.
Designer Philip Rhodes - could not be better. Looks a bit Goat like to me, just a softer floor shape!!!





PENGUIN Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com (units English)

Brian

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Well said Joost. That's really what the thread is looking for. A recent post might have found it, a class I do not know here in the UK but 10,000 were built in the US.
Designer Philip Rhodes - could not be better. Looks a bit Goat like to me, just a softer floor shape!!!





PENGUIN Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com (units English)

Brian

Hi Brian

I've just looked up the Wooden Boat forum for some design parameters for the nominations, ie.

Nominations please for best 12' sailing dinghy design.

Rules:

can be just under or just over 12'

there must be plans available to build

two categories: (1) epoxy clinker plank or strip plank
(2) stitch and tape / glue

Wouldn't this rule out the Penguin?

The 12' Dabchick scow has been the most popular junior class in South Africa since 1955 and it's not hard to see why.

As far as simplicity of construction, the Dabchick has no peer as there is no cockpit and the entire hull is a lightweight bouyancy tank. This makes it a very cheap and safe boat. Class rules keep the boat simple and inexpensive, but all the elements and controls are still there to teach kids the finer points of sailing, and its superb performance in a blow keeps kids interested. (When the wind gets up, all the parents want to take the Dabchick out for a blast!)

Transportation is simple and its 12" deck-to-keel measurement means multiple boats can be stacked onto a trailer so that none of the kids in a family need miss out on owning a boat.

Simple construction, simple rig, nice controls, safe, great performance, easy transport, simple maintenance. The Dabchick deserves a nomination.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

two categories: (1) epoxy clinker plank or strip plank
(2) stitch and tape / glue[/I][/COLOR]

Wouldn't this rule out the Penguin?

Quite a few older designs have been converted to S&G, one such is the Heron.

MIK's build methods of framed panels would suit such a design I would have thought?





A modern re-engineering of a good design is valid I think.

Brian

Hello Brian,

While the Penguin looks like a nice design indeed, I would like to think that with the construction methods and materials (plywood / epoxy) of this era and today’s insights in hydrodynamics, it should be possible to come up with something more exiting though classic looking whilst still using 3 panels (two side panels and one bottom panel) for the hull.

I am just thinking out loud here and my imagination might not match what makes sense from a technical/design perspective (so all please feel free to shoot!) but I wonder about a design that incorporates a modernish hull with a traditional rig:

- 12 ft hull with a plumb stem, a narrowish bottom panel and sides with lots of flare to increase buoyancy when the boat starts heeling (the Bagger takes this to the extreme, but I am more thinking along the lines of the I550 Sportboat or the UK National 12 class), to limit drag but that still planes easily under the right conditions
- Hull quite wide at gunwale level - small side decks (25 cm / 10 inches or so) matching the curve of the hull to make hiking and weight shifting to balance the boat easier and to compensate for the flare (you do want to be able to sit down on the side decks easily).
- Construction method the same as for the GIS with flotation chambers under foredeck and aft deck, perhaps 3 bulkheads
- Daggerboard and Aussi style rudder set up (Storer's usuals!)
- To top off the package, a nicely proportioned standing lug sail (who has not fallen in love with the beautiful rig of the 12 ft dinghy class that Ralph has posted so many pictures of!)
- Boat aimed at sailing although it would be nice if it can take a set of oars

Yes, it is nice that one can dream!

Best regards,

Joost

Joost, you have just perfectly described the design MIK has already in his head - we will just have to wait for it to come out!

This thread - and the one running alongside it on the WBF - seem to have clarified that there is a space for such a 12' design just waiting to be filled.

Don't knock the older designs though. Water is still water and Rhodes was a great designer. The market place seems to place a great deal of faith in re-engineered classic designs - the Lymington Scow being just such an example.

Brian

Hi Brian,

What can I say: great minds think alike!

I absolutely agree with you that some of the re-engineered classics (like your scow, the US Melonseed, the Optimist, the International Folkboat) are very popular indeed and are selling well. But in a most cases they are now made of fibreglass rather than wood as a lot of people are convinced that wood means maintenance and therefore time and money. For a production boat, wood would usually be more expensive due to the manhours). Also class rules very often dictate that the boats are to be made of fibreglass.

But regardless of construction method, these old designs still look great and are sailing strong. And when a large group of boats of the same design is sailing in one's local waters, I fully understand why people choose to sail that particular design.

Joost