Thread: Is that a 12' GIS I see hull down on your horizon

I think at the moment we're just indulging in a sidetrack. Pondering future boats once this one is sorted.

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy Sumbloak,

Speaking of Merlin Rockets ... I ran into Keith Callaghan who designs Merlins.

We were comparing notes about NS14s and the development of Merlins.

This is his website. He knows Michael McNamara who built the goat sails for Richard's UK goat.

HAZARDOUS series Merlin Rockets by Keith Callaghan

Yup, I like his stuff. I have had his site bookmarked for some time. Merlins are nice boats. The Hadron is nice too, but not quite what I would want myself for just messing around in.

It is always interesting when there's the feeling that it is impossible to match performance ... wonder how close it is possible to go I would think it would be possible to do something that would be faster than my 1979 boat.

I sometimes wonder what extra aerodynamic benefits you could get out of a lug rig. A sleeve for the head seems like one obvious starting point, or a different section for the yard. It may be possible to do something with the mast too, given that the airflow past it will basically always be in the same direction if the mast rotates in its step.

I like balanced lugs because they are so simple and effective under sail, and so easy to handle just about anytime, especially if you have a doubled topping lift.

Interesting you mention Ian Ward. I have dealt with Ian through work (top bloke by the way) and I have it on good authority from one of his former colleagues that he has been developing aluminium foiling sections for a conventinal hull (not for Moths). Apparently he outlaid a whole stack of cash for the tooling for the aluminium sections but the design wasn't 100% and they don't work.

MIK do we have an ETA on when the plans for the new boat will be available?

Tim

Howdy Tim,

There will be enough info for someone who knows how to build a boat in a few weeks. But I would rather that the boat Rick is building to be sailing first to make sure there isn't anything 'orrible lurking. Like the RAID41!

I'd be happy for someone who knows the risks to build ahead of that data, but it is some money to get the materials and bits and I worry that the person might be disappointed with the boat, time and effort if something goes wrong on the water.

MIK

Originally Posted by Sumbloak

I sometimes wonder what extra aerodynamic benefits you could get out of a lug rig. A sleeve for the head seems like one obvious starting point, or a different section for the yard. It may be possible to do something with the mast too, given that the airflow past it will basically always be in the same direction if the mast rotates in its step.

I like balanced lugs because they are so simple and effective under sail, and so easy to handle just about anytime, especially if you have a doubled topping lift.

Soft Wing Sails | Scoop.it

They are trying to get this on a mini-transat boat - which would be a great test.

It looks complex and bitty and expensive and at first brush looks delicate - imagine all those bits chafing for 3500 miles. It also looks incredibly clever!

It worries what it would be like reefing the sail or sorting out problems. There's no area of the deck near the mast that is really safe to stand. That would be a criticism of a balance lug too I guess.

There's no ability to flatten the sail out though you can reverse the camber I guess.

Relies on a very stiff freestanding mast so there might be a loss of rig dynamics as the sail will not flatten, twist and depower in the same way as single sail attached to a spar. But that problem doesn't stop jibs from working OK

MIK

These "soft wings" are an idea that has basically been around since Herreshoff played wth double-sided sails. The big thing that worries me for a daysailing dinghy is what happens when you bottle it? That old Dufour Wing I used to have had a smaller sail for heavier breezes, but the sleeve for it was a bit loose and closed at the top. Result was that when the mast was in the water the sleeve filled up, and it was a real effort to get it raised to the point where the water would start running out the bottom. Not exactly the best design for sailboarding in strong winds.

I can see a soft wing catching and holding a lot of water, which would make capsize recovery impossible unless you dropped the sail while you were in the water and squeezed most of it out of your now collapsed wing. This is probably not going to be easy, given what the conditions will be like when you do go wrong side up. For club racing where you'll have rescue boats, not a problem. For trundling off into the briny whenever you feel like it, not so good.

ETA: Of course you could just pull the whole rig out and then right the boat, but that's a rigmarole.

That is a good point indeed and it is complexified if the boat is large and knocked down ... the fight between the wind and water and the keel might end up with the sail being the injured party

Originally Posted by Sumbloak

These "soft wings" are an idea that has basically been around since Herreshoff played wth double-sided sails.

I didn't remember that on reading

Which is the reason for many class rules disallowing "double luff sails" specifically by word and also by having a package size rule for folded sails.

L. Francis Herreshoff had rotating mast and rotating jib luff spar and double luff sails on his 1929 (approx) "Live Yankee" - one of the most striking boats ever designed. Where normal boats have about 1/3 the weight in ballast, this was about 70% by virtue of extremely light aircraft type construction for the hull. All the funny riggine went in the end and the boat started winning with a conventional rig.

vcm_s_kf_repr_300x419.jpg

So, any news on how the building is progressing?

Some new pictures perhaps?

Joost

Rick was rushing to get the boat finished enough to get to the Depoe Bay Wooden Boat Show in Oregon ... which he did on the weekend.

So It has been out one time already - sans decks. But towards the end of the week he was rushing too much to take many pics

MIK

Andrew Linn (I think put up these photos from the Depoe Bay Boat show where the 12ft boat (without deck) had its first public outing. Rick posted on Facebook

Port of Toledo Community Boathouse



MIK

06storer.jpg

This Shaw4 dinghy was featured in yachts and Yachting. Looks familiar to me, amazing.



Shaw4

Haha.

The Yachts and Yachting forum has a date of 28 Feb this year. Sailing anarchy thread is October last year.

Maybe they had a poke around this thread at the beginning of May 2011 I'll just have to move faster next time

I actually think it is much more likely there are stylistic ideas that are common and not that many places to go.

There is one basic difference though. The composite wooden (thanks for the correction Tommyboy) boat is based around being light and easily driven without a huge amount of sail. Modest measurements, not too wide a stern. And simple hiking from the hull.

Plumb stem, lower rocker, square top main. The bow raked back was pure affectation on my part - it really doesn't have any functional purpose apart from looking trendy.

Any signs of a retail price for the expensive one?

MIK

Cannot see a price anywhere, but this sail design was on the blog section,



Reading the blog at the very end, it sounds like a guy, just wanted a boat for himself, not a big company thing.

Quote:

One of the main objectives of this boat is to ‘Attract people (and me) back to sailing’. I have not sailed competitively for over 20 years.
I am a computer programmer {C# .net} and have sat in a chair everyday for the last 17 years, so my fitness level is average (only because I am going to the gym in preparation of the new boat) plus I am 58 years old.

I would love to return to sailing but I need the right equipment. I do not want to organize crew, I am very busy and so are they so it would be like trying to organize ducks. I also want to attract others to this boat, so I have people to race and socialize with.

In New Zealand there is a big movement back to the old classes for guys my age, but I sailed those boat as a teen and they are slow and horrible, talk about death roll downwind, wow! This option was never going to get me back so I simply did nothing.

I sailed Moths when I was young, starting in scow designs which were both fast (in the day) and stable. I sailed moth skiff designs before they got very narrow. The classes that you talk about in the UK and US simply are not here. I think there are about 4 -5 Musto skiffs in Auckland. The Laser was never an option because, while they are fun, they are kind of slow and very uncomfortable on my legs.

So this led me to think about the perfect boat that fitted my demographic. It had to be both fast and relatively easy to sail and I wanted a quality build here in New Zealand. So I started thinking about what I needed to fulfil the above objectives.

It was clear to me that Rob Shaw was a very talented designer and his sport boats where both fast, easy to handle and pretty.
I arranged a meeting with Rob Shaw and he was keen to become involved, so we had a number of meetings where I informed him what I wanted. The evolution processed started and here we are.

There is a lot of talent in every aspect of yachting here in New Zealand, so to shine here you have to be good!!! So to apply the New Zealand talent pool to this project was easy and all were keen to be involved. This team are world champions; they have been to the Olympics and won national championships since they were children. For example Andrew is currently in the Med as tactician on a maxi yacht for a series.

The collective experience and knowledge of this team is amazing and each brings expertise in their area. They are not a committee; each is clear about the objectives and has the knowledge to complete their part of the project. For example, Rob is not designing the rig.

The design process is a series of refinements and I have every confidence that we will produce an exceptional boat, which many will enjoy for years to come.

Brian