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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Howdy,

    While I like the ingenuity of Andrew's mast I don't like it so much because it isn't tapered. Too much weight at the ends and also it doesn't look right.
    I guess it could be tapered just like a birdsmouth?

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  3. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.o.a.t. View Post
    A foam insulated concrete mast...
    Or a cork covered one...
    (Ok... I'm not very good at hints ! )
    I'm thinking the mast will be heated some how. The convection process of the heated air rising off the mast will draw cooler air from the deck creating a low pressure zone that will increase apparent wind speed. I know a guy who knows a guy who was planning to do something similar, but heating bills were going to be higher than the cost of carbon fiber so instead he just adopted used laser rigs...

    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  4. #138
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    Foam to create, wrapped aound a wooden inner mast (or simple piece of aluminum tubing or flagpole), a wingmast?

    And than a sail with battens and a mastpocket (sleeve)??


  5. #139
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    A Nerf wing-mast !!!
    Or maybe Hebel..

  6. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    I guess it could be tapered just like a birdsmouth?
    It could in theory, but then you have to cut all the veed kerfs so they are curved. EEEEK.

    MIK

  7. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by davlafont View Post
    I'm thinking the mast will be heated some how. The convection process of the heated air rising off the mast will draw cooler air from the deck creating a low pressure zone that will increase apparent wind speed. I know a guy who knows a guy who was planning to do something similar, but heating bills were going to be higher than the cost of carbon fiber so instead he just adopted used laser rigs...

    Dave ... some people are just troublemakers.


  8. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joost View Post
    Foam to create, wrapped aound a wooden inner mast (or simple piece of aluminum tubing or flagpole), a wingmast?

    And than a sail with battens and a mastpocket (sleeve)??

    The little wingmasts that were developed for the NS14 and then turned into expensive alloy and carbon fibre ones were originally achieved in cellulose.

    Or on the Taser they are a heavy multi piece alloy thingy.

    But Oh so cool. But the question is if they are really worthwhile for the type of person who would build a cute little one person sailing boat. The rigs are held up by three wires and need diamond struts below the hounds. And you do have to flip the mast over each tack usually.

    Thinking thinking.

    MIK

  9. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    It could in theory, but then you have to cut all the veed kerfs so they are curved. EEEEK.

    MIK
    Mmm, maybe not in practice. A good tight wrap with packing tape would squish it all together, and we use poxy gap filling glue, so all would be good!

    I think.....

  10. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    But Oh so cool. But the question is if they are really worthwhile for the type of person who would build a cute little one person sailing boat. The rigs are held up by three wires and need diamond struts below the hounds. And you do have to flip the mast over each tack usually.

    Thinking thinking.

    MIK
    With such a rig I imagine that MIK's LSD () will be more for a niche market.

    Just thinking out loud here, but why not offer the option of both a more complicated, expensive but sexy rig and the option of a more conventional rig (sail with mastsleeve and full battens to support an extended roach)? For example Dudley Dix's Paperjet, and a lot of "plastic" boats like the Topper range, offer also the possibility to "supercharge" the boat by changing to another rig.

  11. #145
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    Worth thinking about Joost.

    It is a nice technical challenge to try and work out a cheap way to do the sophisticated rig.

    Also it is a nice point about the way that conventional boats have limited their appeal and killed chance of growth of sailing as a past time/sport/hobby.

    Can it be done? I would like to think so. My contention always has been that the performance improvements have been about METHODS whereas the increase in expense has been through MATERIALS and COMPLICATION of what is actually fundamentally simple.

    Main improvements have been
    1. Accurate foils
    2. Mast sail combination for sailing in a wider wind range with good speed
    3. Hull refinements that move from sub planing to planing speeds more easily than the wide stern types and thus have less wetted area for light winds as well. Not to mention way better handling in waves.


    These have come about because of decades of step by step refinement and are independent of the materials and complication variables.

    That the OzRacer sails so very well is a testament to the way the first two items provide a efficiency to what is a very simple hullshape.

    MIK

  12. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Mmm, maybe not in practice. A good tight wrap with packing tape would squish it all together, and we use poxy gap filling glue, so all would be good!

    I think.....
    Maybe not so hard... shape the taper in the square blanks, then apply the
    45degree chamfer both sides.

    You could create a proper birds mouth mast, even without a table saw, by
    cutting twice as many half thickness staves, chamfering only the straight
    side alternately left & right, & glueing the narrow faces together to form
    true birds mouth staves.
    cheers
    AJ

  13. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    It is a nice technical challenge to try and work out a cheap way to do the sophisticated rig.

    Also it is a nice point about the way that conventional boats have limited their appeal and killed chance of growth of sailing as a past time/sport/hobby.

    Can it be done? I would like to think so. My contention always has been that the performance improvements have been about METHODS whereas the increase in expense has been through MATERIALS and COMPLICATION of what is actually fundamentally simple.
    I am all in favour of sophistiated simplicity! As said before, I am really looking forward to your ideas and solutions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    1. Accurate foils
    2. Mast sail combination for sailing in a wider wind range with good speed
    3. Hull refinements that move from sub planing to planing speeds more easily than the wide stern types and thus have less wetted area for light winds as well. Not to mention way better handling in waves.
    We have lately mainly been discussing the rig options. What will you do with the foils? Are you going to stick with your current templates as for the GIS and OZracer?

    Is your thinking for the hull still going along the lines of the below drawing you posted in May last year:




    Joost

  14. #148
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    How important is design?

    I initially had mixed feelings about the O'pen Bic our club selected as our Learn To Sail (LTS) trainer. Yachting Australia supports the use of the Optimist, and provides cash support for the use of this boat as a trainer, yet we still went for the Bic. Those mixed feelings soon disappeared when I saw how much fun the kids have with them, and I feel it is light years ahead of the Opti in lots of respects. It is a tough, blow molded hull with a simple rig but has all the necessary controls for kids to learn. More importantly, the boat is cheap, cheaper than the Opti and takes 2 minutes to rig up. We even use them to teach adults as the hull easily supports two adult bodies. Try that with an Opti! In the video, the kids are seen righting the boat without even needing to stand on the dagger board, and unlike the Opti, it doesn't need to be bailed out. One person can have the whole fleet ready to go on the water in minutes. Our club has 6 of them, and these 6 boats taught 76 kids to sail last season!

    The little Bic looks so cool that kids just want to jump on and learn to sail. You can't underestimate the cool factor. Ask any kid who learned to sail on a Bic and they will give you the thumbs up.

    After the ball point pen, it's the next best thing to come out of France.

    Noosa - Noosaville Open BIC 2012 AUSTRALIAN O'PEN CUP - YouTube

  15. #149
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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc8qifouEPU&feature=related]O'pen BIC high wind session - YouTube[/ame]

    The Open BIC indeed looks like a fun boat to sail albeit very wet!

    Yes, we want it to be very cool. Yet simple in terms of building and rigging it.

    Joost

  16. #150
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    Hi Joost

    Yes, the Bic is fun to sail, even for adult experienced sailors when the breeze is up! However it is very much a junior "learn to sail" type of boat, and the point I was making is that it meets this requirement better than any other boat I know. Basically, the designer got it right as an Opti-killer.

    The kids love it because it looks so cool, it's easy to sail in all sorts of conditions including big waves, they can easily right the boat and it can be made to do tricks. We love it because it is tough, safe,easy to rig and maintain.

    For most kids, they will grow out of it in a couple of years and move on to something else. In our club, that usually means a Laser 4.7 or Radial. Resale values are high, so the boats rotate to other families when the kids move on.

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