Thread: New beautiful BETH built in Swizerland

The tiller yoke on the mizzen is the coolest work-around I have seen in a while. Very cool!

Rick.

Howdy,

The ply looks fantastic. I know what type it is but can't for the life of me remember the name.

The owner might find that having hatches that are even a little waterproof will help recovery after capsize.

But the main thing is to try in good conditions and see how the boat behaves.

It looks completely fantastic - I even like the tiller setup. One potential risk is if you break the mast it might be difficult (but possible) to steer. I don't think it is likely to be a big risk. Some extra wraps of glass on the mast at the partner through to the top of the tiller would mean that the mast is more likely to break above the tiller point.

A very lovely boat.

Just heard from a chap in Kiel who is starting a GIS - he wanted the birdsmouth mast option.

Best wishes
Michael

MIK

Where in Switzerland? I could go check it out if its near me.


I just can't make out the license plate.

Now that would be really cool. You should PM Robert if he hasn't seen it yet.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Now that would be really cool.

I don't know location of Erwin in Switzerland... Sorry...
Switzerland is not a very big country but...

Do you know how to get in touch with him?

I just came back from CH, but I'm going to Norway in a few days, and might swing back through CH to take care of some family matters at the end of the trip. If he's near where I need to be, and he's willing, it might be fun. Or maybe not.

Originally Posted by callsign222

Do you know how to get in touch with him?

Watch a PM by the moment.

Mik,

How do you feel about the boat being done in stitch and glue as opposed to the chinelog? What would be some of the pros and cons? Would you still recommend a stem at the ends?

Howdy,

The nice thing about chinelogs is the way they keep everything quite fair. That's the big advantage. As the sides are 4mm lightweight ply they will be quite flexible,

I do suspect the assembly will go faster with a chinelog in place in terms of the time actually spent. Wire adjusting compared to the one hit fit of the chinelog. Though the chinelog will mean there is a two day process usually.

Also I do like to see some woodwork in most boats.

Again - not a prohibition - if you do a nice job I will congratulate you!

MIK

Good points MIK, and I agree the chine log makes the process surprisingly easy, and it's more accurate.

Remember too Christophe that if you use stitch and tape, all the chines need fillettiing and glass tape is essential on the outsides at least. This is a lot more work and can be more weight too, but that depends on the timber you use for the chinelogs. I prefer not to glass the chines as it introduces a lot of extra work in fairing the hull. For me this is a major benefit of the chinelog construction as taping is not critical to the strength of the structure as it is for the stitch method. If you tape the outside of a chinelog construction it's only really adding some ding protection. I do understand and accept that I will have to touch up the odd ding on my chines! Not a huge issue for me at all.

While the usual process with stitch and tape is to glass both sides of the joint, it is probably unnecessary to tape the inside joint. Interesting is that Paper Tiger cat construction nowadays eliminates glassing on the inside of the joint and relies on the fillet only. These boats are highly stressed and they seem to be lasting very well.

Another thought that might be relevant is that MIK's boats don't have floorboards and therefore the bottom of the boat bears the weight of it's crew directly. MIK might comment on this, but I suspect that the chinelog might be better at speading those forces, especially as we Goat sailors tend to stand up more when sailing our boats! This may not be an issue for Beth though.

With the Oz Ducks I have sometimes worried a bit about the filleted seam between the cockpit floor and the side tank faces.

Particularly because a fair few of the duck sailors are up over the 200lb mark.

But even that construction hasn't broken except for one example. That one was not glued with epoxy - but a number of non epoxy boats have been OK in this area.

The main thing is to follow the rules for the specific method.

Timber or fillet - minimum gluing area has to be three times the ply thickness and all will be well. With a fillet on the inside I would be recommending a glass tape on the outside.

MIK

If the sides are 4mm is the bottom 6?

Yes, theoretically you should be able to get away with 12mm square, but 19 is just too easy and reliable. I would think that 12mm would be impossible to do the temporary fastening without splitting or protruding from the smaller possible chinelog.

MIK

I was surprised to learn that the little 8' Firebug uses a 9mm ply bottom. For such a small boat that's quite hefty. This little boat has a very small cockpit and the bottom also bear's the sailor's weight in the manner of the GIS and the PD Racer.

The other surprise is that a mould is employed in its construction. OK, with a 9mm ply bottom, that's probably necessary, but I can't help thinking that this little boat could be made much more cheaply and efficiently without a mould and with thinner ply. It would also be lighter! After all the shape isn't a whole lot different to the 16' Fireball's and as far as I can recall, there was no mould required in its construction.

The justification for 9mm ply on the bottom appears to be stability and toughness. Here is an extract from their website:

"The 9mm seems thick but remember it is also the cockpit floor, it supports the mast, it crunches the rocks on the beach and as well the extra weight keeps the centre of gravity low."

I'm sure that stays could have been eliminated from the rig as well, saving more money.

Now I'm not knocking the Firebug. After all it has been a remarkably successful design, and it's introducing a whole new generation of sailors to the sport. But I can't help thinking that it could have been so much better.