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  1. #1
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    Default Beth with outriggers?

    Hi Guys, been trying t work out how to ease my dizziness problems, to ensure I can keep sailing. I have owned and learnt from many boats, more than 22 counted a few years ago, and only one boat remained that I wanted to try.

    She is a Shearwater sailing canoe fitted with outriggers. They are very well made and outside my limited means, but a second hand one turned up which I was fortunate to buy.

    I have just had my first two sails in her and she works very well for me so far. Small sail, only 4 m, very easily driven and resonsive to sail, comfortable sitting facing forward and no dipping my head for tacking - the thing that makes me dizzy.

    Here are some pics and a video of my first sail. Note how you never see the outriggers in the water - they are raised to miss the water in normal sailing but be there if needed.

    Picasa Web Albums - 11576796960220832... - Shearwater fi...

    and video

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy816d_-Fi8]YouTube - Shearwater sailing canoe, first sail in the Solent[/ame]

    and a Solent Potter yesterday, in 13 knots average gusting 17 knots. Quite windy and bouncy down the Solent, but lovely and peaceful coming back all through the marshes.

    Picasa Web Albums - 11576796960220832... - Tanners Lane ...

    I have to say that the outriggers were very welcome. Allowed me to relax and enjoy sailing a canoe without worry I would capsize any minute.

    So, perhaps Beth could be more widely built and enjoyed with similar lifted outriggers? No one likes them for there looks, but they are very popular for sea sailing here in the UK.

    All the best everybody

    Brian

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter View Post
    So, perhaps Beth could be more widely built and enjoyed with similar lifted outriggers? No one likes them for there looks, but they are very popular for sea sailing here in the UK.
    Hi Brian!
    I think - outriggers could be problems for flat bottomed Beth at rough water than flat bottomed boats pounding at waves when no heeled, but I consider to try of it.
    Outriggers for round bottomed and for Vee bottomed canoes is a very good idea!
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  4. #3
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    Hi Robert, the Shearwater has to heel a great deal before the outrigger immerse, so perhaps Beth would be V shaped by the time the outriggers were immersed?

    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter View Post
    the Shearwater has to heel a great deal before the outrigger immerse, so perhaps Beth would be V shaped by the time the outriggers were immersed?
    I think - probably yes!

    see attachement
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  6. #5
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    I think that Beth is such a cool boat but unless you were just using them as training wheels, the outriggers would defeat the purpose. If you were going to make a multi-hull, you would be better off starting with something like some of Gary Dierking's stuff.(Assuming that MIK doesn't have anything similar on a back burner somewhere.)


    Read MIK's take on even adding hiking boards (at the bottom of the Beth page) discusses exactly the problems it creates with the spars and such from just a hiking board. Outriggers would be much rougher on it.

  7. #6
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    Exactly - she is pretty stable boat
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  8. #7
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    The Shearwater going along nicely in the video is 25% wider and has half the sail area! Just thought I would mention it.....

    Brian

  9. #8
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    Howdy Brian,

    I think with your balance being a bit out the visual cues from the outriggers getting closer or further away from the water would also be a useful cue as well. Give you time to apply your skills as they give such a clear idea of the amount of heel.

    I did write a bit at the bottom of my BETH page about leaning planks - somebody was always suggesting a leaning plank until I added that bit.
    See the blue writing at the bottom here ...
    Beth Sailing Canoe - Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans

    Leaning planks did appear not long after about 1880, but I based Beth on the sailing canoes of the 1870s to keep the expense and complication down.

    However while the extra stress argument might be relevant for full size outriggers - I was ready to write about it when I saw the thread - such small ones as the Shearwater will not affect the stability a great deal as they are so easily immersed. But another 30 lbs of buoyancy at 3ft out is going to give some quite useful foot poundals.

    I keep wondering about the Quick Canoe as a simple sailing canoe - with or without the drop in outriggers. A bit more sail than Paul Helbert has been playing with. A cheap man's BETH if you like.

    MIK

  10. #9
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    Which reminds me, Bolger comments in BWAOM that one of his slender box boats
    actually worked out to be a better boat as a tri.

    How does Eureka perform with a decent size sail & foils MIK?
    Has anyone done a full-on sailing version with Beth-sized sails & your out-riggers?

    That Shearwater sure is a nice boat to watch on the water. And on land.
    Is she yours now Brian? Or just borrowed for the day?
    AJ

  11. #10
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    Howdy BOAT,

    I haven't sailed a Eureka with the outriggers and special rig I have drawn up to give, I think about 60 sq ft.

    I originally drew up the outriggers for a 17ft redbird strip canoe which was fitted with about a 75 square foot rig. I suspect very much that the boat will perform much the same with different main hulls assuming they are something like a canoe.

    The Redbird - a classic canoe in the canoecraft book is quite fine in the ends and hollow as well which made is slow to manouver - at least when tacking. So much drag from the bow and stern as they are forced around a curve that it is hard not to stall half way through a tack.

    Reaching speed and running speed were very satisfactory. Upwind the floats provide the lateral resistance so if you wanted to go upwind effectively you had to sit on the lee gunwale or on the crossbeam outside the hull to get the leeward float deep enough in the water to provide lateral resistance.

    Was very much worth keeping speed up going upwind. Not let it slow down. This meant a tacking angle of probably 120 degrees but we were footing so fast at that angle there was little leeway and the distance covered was worth it.

    MIK

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    One thing that kept striking me as I looked at different shearwater canoes on the net is just how reminiscent of the olympic finn dinghy. Sarby the designer of the Finn was a canoe nut ... he made a very wide and quite long canoe and lopped the stern off to get the Finn. On paper, or maybe on the strongback ... but you can really see it in some of these shots.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na7hS_GEkmw"]YouTube- Shearwater sailing canoe on Ullswater[/ame]

  13. #12
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    This one might give an idea of the attractions of canoe sailing ... and also might give some idea of how the little outriggers interact in stronger winds

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ytUgkwwbs]YouTube - Sailing canoe aquamuse??mizusima?hukui?JAPAN?[/ame]
    from Japan.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Howdy BOAT,

    I haven't sailed a Eureka with the outriggers and special rig I have drawn up to give, I think about 60 sq ft.

    MIK

    Outriggers duly ordered.
    Have foil blanks in shed.
    Will think about rig closer to time (later this year at earliest).
    AJ

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post

    I haven't sailed a Eureka with the outriggers and special rig I have drawn up to give, I think about 60 sq ft.


    MIK
    Hopefully it will happen this spring.

    The rig is still on the to do list but it is also getting near the top.
    Mike
    "Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"

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    Kewl !!

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