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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Mac
    You've dragged in at least one non-boatee. I'm enjoying the pics and the sleek woodwork, but really have no idea what I'm looking at! I'll be interested in hearing your opinion of the blue tarp...would it make suitable windmill sails? You know, those old Greek style things...
    Andy, Poly tarp is the cheapest, daggiest material known to man I reckon! It'd probably work as a windmill sail OK, but it has a few interesting issues if you are going to join it yourself, like.. it's polypropylene and therefore immune to all known adhesives and solvents, it can be heat joined if you have the equipment. I tried with a soldering iron (using a bit of masking tape to stop it melting) and had limited success.

    We are using sailmakers double-sided tape, and sewing the edges, but many in the US use duct tape to hold them down.

    I'm currently looking at Tyvek, for the next lot, it comes in 100 m rolls 1500 wide for $300.00 and that may be a better deal for the windmill sails as well. It's white, but can be painted or even printed on.

    Stay in touch over the next week or so, I've organised some more info from the manufacturer which may be useful.

    cheers,

    P (Hopefully we'll get you out for a sail on the death-ships one day!)

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  3. #77
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    Many years ago I used to work at a canvas makers shop. They had poly weave material in three different thicknesses and UV stabilisied as well. Rolls were 2.4m and 3m wide. Would make really light and strong sails for a puddle duck

    Oh, the ducks look great too Peter
    Have a nice day - Cheers

  4. #78
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Butcher
    Many years ago I used to work at a canvas makers shop. They had poly weave material in three different thicknesses and UV stabilisied as well. Rolls were 2.4m and 3m wide. Would make really light and strong sails for a puddle duck

    Oh, the ducks look great too Peter
    AND BOATMIK!!! )

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik
    AND BOATMIK!!! )
    He only designed and built them, why would he be looking for a mention in the credits??

    Welcome home to Adelaide Mik, I've got about a third of the shed cleaned up...and no progress on the other sail tonight!

    cheers,

    P (I've got noone to watch working tonight )


  6. #80
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    Brothers Midge and Mik

    I am absolutely in awe! No kidding, I think this is one of the best threads to grace these forums and for several reasons

    1) Sheer entertainment value. Those of us who have been keeping abreast of developments have been rewarded with a well-written, well-illustrated story.

    2) The finished result. A couple of good-looking little marine vessels.

    3) The cheapskate theme. Good work comes from crappy raw material. Love it!

    4) A whole lot of experience and expertise on show. This is really good how-to stuff.

    I'm not a sailor but I've been fascinated by this thread. Well done! Have a couple of greenies!

    Col
    Driver of the Forums
    Lord of the Manor of Upper Legover

  7. #81
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    Sorry Michael

    Oh, the ducks look great too Peter & BOATMIK
    Have a nice day - Cheers

  8. #82
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    Aug 2002
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    Sydney, NSW, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver
    Brothers Midge and Mik

    I am absolutely in awe! No kidding, I think this is one of the best threads to grace these forums and for several reasons

    1) Sheer entertainment value. Those of us who have been keeping abreast of developments have been rewarded with a well-written, well-illustrated story.

    2) The finished result. A couple of good-looking little marine vessels.

    3) The cheapskate theme. Good work comes from crappy raw material. Love it!

    4) A whole lot of experience and expertise on show. This is really good how-to stuff.

    I'm not a sailor but I've been fascinated by this thread. Well done! Have a couple of greenies!

    Col
    Ditto!

  9. #83
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    Feb 2006
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    Thumbs up Hear Hear

    I agree.

    And as one who is planning their foray into boat building, it is also inspirational as well as showing a lot of the new techniques (and their practical application).

    Now where are those plans......

  10. #84
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    Nov 2003
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    YE GODS! I seem to have suggested a monster...... this thing is taking over!

  11. #85
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    As I have said privately Christopha, I OWE you bigtime!! :eek:

    Thanks for the encouragement chaps, with that vote of confidence, I'd better see this thing through to the very end....so tonight, it's the quick and dirty cleats.

    Now I know plastic horn cleats can be bought from any boat shop for two or three dollars, but building two boats, and needing one for each boat that would add up to SIX DOLLARS :eek: :eek: , so we really should build our own.

    (Actually when we thought we were running out of time to go sailing, we bought two of the $2.00 ones, then got the guilts 'cause it wasn't in the spirit of the thing..... for sale, two plastic cleats; offers around $4.00 )

    Anyway, tonight I made four roughies in twenty minutes, then took an hour and a bit getting the photos sorted for posting here:

    NOTE: Cleats are easy and fun to make using hand tools one at a time, but this time I just wanted to churn them out....

    1) Take any old bit of timber you can find that seems strong enough, and cut the bit off the end, that looks as though it's got four cleats inside it.

    2) Take your little block of wood and make a couple of angled cuts on the table saw. If you are as smart as I am, you'll hold it all securely in place with a big heavy clamp, or if you are cleverer still will make a special carrier for the piece.

    Even if you are really dumb, please work out how to do this safely before trying it!

    3) This is where I don't look so smart... having made the cuts in the wrong side of the block, notice the grain running across what will be the horns, somewhat like building in a certain failure. We'd really like the grain to be running lengthwise and preferably vertically wouldn't we!

    4) After starting again, the first four cuts made, the block is about 100mm long at this stage.

    5) Drill a couple of holes about 1 1/2 times the diameter of the rope intended for the cleat.

    6) Nip off the bottom corner bits

    7) Slice the block into cleat-sized slices, then trim off the bottom bits to the desired depth.

    8) Stick them one at a time in a vice, and drag a rasp and sandpaper over them till they look something like a bought one.

    9) (The last pic) Here's the first off the production line, with the remaining blanks, and a black plastic one for comparison.

    It's bit rough and ready, and I may invest another five minutes getting it prettier before it gets its fixing holes drilled and a nice epoxy coating, but hey, I've just saved another $2.00 and had $20.00 worth of fun in the process!

    Tomorrow night... let's make some saddles!

    Cheers,

    P

  12. #86
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    (Plans info is now here Aug 2006)

    The trick to making fittings out of wood in this way is to work out where the wood will split and put the fastenings (bolts and screws) that are used to attach the fairleads or cleat to the boat perpendicular to the cleavage plane.

    That's the traditional way and it makes the cleats and fairleads just as strong as the metal bolts or screws that hold them in place.

    The reason the radius at the bottom of the cleat is so that sometimes you just want to put the rope under the cleat to change the angle for pulling it. If the rope is 6mm and the radius is 9mm the rope will pull through nicely.

    However when you have taken the rope one full turn around the cleat so there are two layers of 6mm rope taking up the 9mm radius it jams very effectively.

    You have probably seen people use the cleats by wrapping the rope in a figure of 8 pattern, backwards and forwards. The proper way is to go round the base once so it jams then do some figure of 8s. Usually two or three.

    The beauty is that first full turn takes all the load which means that the figure of 8s will always be easy to undo.

    Centuries of development!

    Nice looking cleats too Midge - I expect the fairleads will be a work of art!

    BTW can you measure up the cleats and send me the details so I can add the drawings to the plan!!!

    MIK
    Last edited by Boatmik; 12th December 2007 at 08:41 PM.

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik
    BTW can you measure up the cleats and send me the details so I can add the drawings to the plan!!!
    It'd be quicker to send you a cleat!

    Thanks for filling in on the clamp techs by the way. (Lucky I curved the bottoms eh? )

    In the 46 minutes between my last post and now, I've had some ice-cream, a couple of Tim Tams and wandered out and made the blanks for the saddles.

    Same deal with the grain, this time you really do want it running longitudinally AND vertically, put two bits of timber back to back, drill a hole exactly down the centre of the two, slice them in to bite sized bits then bung a nice curve on them. Find anything round that looks about right to trace the line around.

    This curve happens to be the same radius as a 6" plastic inspection port.....

    Note that I didn't have my glasses, so as I often do, I use a nice fat Nikko pen for marking out my fine work. As long as the cut is somewhere in the middle of the line, the belt sander will fair it up later.

    In the pic, you'll see a stainless steel saddle purchased from the yachtie shop for the grand sum of $2.95. Four per boat, that's another $24.00 saved on the project cost!

    Tomorrow, I'll sand and pretty them up, if they get the tick from Mik.

    Cheers,

    P (I'll send one of them to Mik as well, for structural analysis.)

  14. #88
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    If she'd come home unexpectedly tonight, I would now be dead.

    :eek: :eek: :eek:

    But she didn't and I lived to talk about spraying the flag graphic on the polytarp sail in the living room!

    I used a product called B-I-N which is a white shellac based primer sealer and available in a spray can, it's good for lots of things, and has the best chance of anything of sticking to polyprop, and it has the advantage that overspray just wipes off with a metho soaked rag!

    First cut the stencil of the star of your choice, spray it with an ever-so light dusting of spray adhesive (do this outside even if she's not home, it will save wiping everything down with turps afterwards, to stop your feet sticking to the floor as you walk.)

    Now you have a tacky stencil. I mean tacky to touch... so press it firmly into place on your polytarp. (This also works on roadsigns, electricity boxes, post boxes and anything else that needs a custom pattern on it, but get the owner's permission first ok?)

    Now spray a couple of light coats. Wait five or ten or fifteen minutes between them and don't build up so thick that the stuff will want to flake off when you fold the sail over. This will happen with wear anyway, but the thinnest coat that covers properly is best.

    Now peel off the stencil and admire your work. Clean the overspray with metho, and you are done!

    Tomorrow: The red bits, but I'll have to do them outside! By the way, they'll just stick to the primer coat, so I'll use ordinary SuperCheap spray can stuff.

    Pics:
    1) Paper stencil, first coat on.

    2)Finished. What a Star!

    3) What the whole catastrophe looks like in progress.

    4) Done and waiting for the red bits now.

    cheers,

    P

  15. #89
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    Midge

    WOW!

    The sail graphics look a million times better than I thought! (I was thinking it was some architecturally inspired namby pamby headtrip! - mea culpa!)

    But on the other hand - the fairleads - what's all that length for? You just need enough length at either end for the fastenings to go through - the rest of it is just hitching a lift and slowing the boat down.

    (thought the proletariat should be aware of the nature of our collaboration!)

    )

    Actually the fairleads look good with that radiussed top too - but as Uffa said "the only good place for weight is in a steam roller".

    Or Lock Crowther (as you quoted at me (more than once)- "anything that is not sail is slowing you down".

    I can't tell you how good it is to quote that one back at you )
    __________________________

    Re our discussions regarding sail cloth stretch - what about a glassfibre packaging tape. Could be applied on the opposite side to the graphics.

    There is probably an optimum path for the tapes - I can put something together for you.

    Keep up the good work - the Queensland Championships depend on it!!!

    MIK

  16. #90
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    Ahh Mik, do I sense the frustration of not being there to crack the whips over the ever unfinishable Midge? Lemme guess, you're already saving up to go back up and finish the things

    Richard

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