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Thread: Building a Storer Rowboat
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23rd December 2007, 03:17 PM #16
Yep, Storer loves the belt sander too, but I'm a bit heavy handed with 'em!
To avoid the splinters in the gaboon, I have found that by cutting to about 3mm of the line and then trimming with the belt sander, most of the splintered bists are taken off.
A cordless circular saw is also very handy at this stage. Much faster than a jig saw and works real good on slow curves.
I forgot to mention that so do plain old garden variety hand-saws are great, and if you have the time and patience, with a japanese pull saw you can pretty much cut on the line. No need for any of this fancy electronic stuff, you can build these boats with very basic hand tools.
Cheers,
P
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24th December 2007, 12:12 PM #17
Sorry mate,
I meant no dis-respect. I was only trying to help.
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24th December 2007, 01:05 PM #18
None shown! As I said, heaps of people read these threads, if there's anything that can be added as an alternative or whatever, it becomes useful down the track.
There are many different ways of skinning a cat (or so I've heard), and here's the place to discuss 'em.
I'd be disappointed if you don't keep adding on the way through!
Cheers,
(and Merry Christmas)
P - whose stuffing round with family today and not building much boat at all!
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24th December 2007, 01:41 PM #19
Thanks mate.
I am at bloody w@#k when I'd much rather be fitting the decks to Robins boat.
Not much getting done here today either.
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25th December 2007, 08:28 AM #20
Howdy Mick!
We KNOW!!!! And thankyou for that. As Midge says - part of this the purpose to share ideas and not just have only one point of view.
It does depend a lot on who I'm aiming the advice at.
I can do a good job with the belt sander - but many cannot.
I will do a crappy job with the circular saw - I've never been comfortable with them - but I have seen people use them fast and accurate!
So the way it works is that you mention the belt and circular - we remind people that they take a little bit of expertise and then people can choose the way they want to go!
Perfect, eh!?!
This is the perfect time for you to mention the tool alternatives for this section of the work too - so thanks hugely!
MIK
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25th December 2007, 10:36 PM #21
Thanks Mik,
Sometimes I forget that I am talking to some very experienced wood workers. I try to gear my posts as a help to those of us who may not be quite so accomplished.
I find trimming ply with a hand plane very difficult to do well and have a lot of respect for those who can use hand tools in this fashion. My information is based on what works for me is all.
I believe a very good build can be achieved with some pretty basic hand tools but I just don't have the skills necessary to do it.
Merry Christmas guys. Please be safe.
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26th December 2007, 12:15 AM #22
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26th December 2007, 09:59 PM #23Intermediate Member
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Hi all
First time sending something on one of these so not sure what will turn up on the page. Just saw the cutting table and am totally impressed. In the process of building my first canoe (Eureka) and am having a ball. But. It is going really slowly as I measure 6 million times and try to then cut once. So far have made mistakes that are recoverable. Bought 2 Bunnings timber trestle tables as the saw horses were too low after stuffing up my back after days measuring and cutting the panels. (The physio is a lot richer). The tables are pretty good but need more height. So laying a grid of timber on top will lift and make cutting easier.
Up to the stage of fibreglass taping the outer hull joins and will then turn over and try to work out what Michael's instructions are telling me regarding the inwales. I usually go to bed with the plans as I have to reread them and then sleep over the explanations. (Diagrams and close up photos are saving me, in particular this forum) The instruction have been great it is just my ability to understand as a novice that is at fault.
The other big benefit of all this is that my wife thinks that I am a genius being able to turn sheets of Gaboon into a canoe. Little does she know.
So all going to plan, hope to launch the canoe in a month or so. Pumistone Passage, Currimundi Lake and Maroochy River waits for us among others. .
One question though. I have spread 2 coats of epoxy on the sheets. Then 3 coats on the tape on the joins. The firreglass folk suggested that I dont varnish but use a paint on epoxy as the finish coat. (It doesn't yellow) Given this, would anyone know about the sanding aspect. Should Ii sand down the tape joins and then progressively fine sand the rest of the hull. I have pitting on parts of the hull from the original epoxy coats. My first attempt. (Does this make sense?)
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year folks.
Phil
Moffat Beach
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26th December 2007, 10:27 PM #24
Phil,
Send me a PM with your contact details and I'll give you a call, since we're almost neighbours.
Go to post #18 here:https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...PDRacer&page=2 for a pic on how to trim the glass tape.
You will need to sand the epoxy, I assume by pitting you mean orange peel from the roller, or did you have little bubbles form?
There's no problem at all using a good quality clear over the epoxy. Use a spar varnish, or something like BoatCraft's clear waterbased poly (which I haven't used). I've had clear on my Goat Island Skiff, (kept under cover) over an epoxy with no inhibitors for 14 years, and no problems!
You are most welcome to have a site inspection if you need the evidence!
Cheers,
P
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26th December 2007, 10:57 PM #25Intermediate Member
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Hi Bitingmidge
Go to post #18 here:https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...PDRacer&page=2 for a pic on how to trim the glass tape.
You will need to sand the epoxy, I assume by pitting you mean orange peel from the roller, or did you have little bubbles form?
............................................
Thanks for the post. The effect is like pimples. Pitting implies craters which was a poor choice of words by me. Not sure what the correct term is. I feel that I will have to sand with the 180 paper and then a 270? grade. Knowing that a varnish is ok, will use that rather than a final epoxy. Will work out how to do a pm next and will send my contact. Would love to see a finished Eureka as it will help answer a lot of my questions. Thought the pictures of the guys from Bribie has been awesome. But it is a lot to live up to..sigh
Phil
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27th December 2007, 12:04 AM #26
G'day Phill and welcome aboard mate.
I haven't built one of Mik's superb boats yet but I think the fibreglassing techniques are pretty similar with most builds. There are lots of little tricks to be had along the way and this boat building caper can become very addictive.
If you have any questions, please don't be afraid to ask. You will probably recieve several answers and even more different ways to attack the problem you might have.
Be prepared for the ooh and ahs and all the questions when you launch your lovely new wooden boat. I dunno, there is just something "right" about building your own boat. even the advocates of the store bought fibreglass and, dare I say it here - gasp - plastic boats recognise this. regards,
Mick
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27th December 2007, 02:11 AM #27
G'day Phil
My take on your description is that the later coat of epoxy didn't like something on the surface of the previous coat & shrank back from it. Might have been anything from fingerprint oils to bug-droppings. Don't know if there is a 'proper' term for it. Only ways I have found to avoid them is absolute fanatical fastidiousness about keeping the previous coat clean when self-keying recoating - I use Bote-Cote so amine blush is minimised. Or equally fastidious sanding when delayed recoating. Absolutely every sq.mm must be keyed.
Epoxy works just fine as an undercoat/primer. Sand until you have an even surface, but don't cut through the epoxy into the glass. (a) cutting the glass fibres weakens the tensile strength of the glass & (b) if glass is exposed through the epoxy, water can be wicked into the lay-up, possibly as far as the underlying wood. Bad Karma, man. If needs be, add extra layer/s of epoxy to ensure you isolate the glass from the water. Marine epoxy is truly 99.999% water proof. Paint is not. Or so the epoxy makers & gurus say. You might also want to build the low spot at the edge of your glass tape with extra coats of epoxy to give a flat surface.
If you are going to clear coat, you are committing to keeping your boat under cover, or to annual sanding & recoating. Even with 10 coats of a good quality marine varnish, 15-18 months of direct sunlight is all it takes to cause it to flake & peel (in Adelaide, anyway). Our UV is an absolute killer. I LOVE the look of clear coated wood, and look for any excuse for having it. But am coming close to agreeing with a bloke named John Welsford - "my favourite varnish is white paint". I have no "under cover" to store my boats other than a polytarp. Cheap shop polytarps last about 10 months in Adelaide before the UV kills them. And 'cheap polytarps" ain't so cheap any more.
Hope this helps. Meanwhile I shall try to contain my insane jealousy about your location. My Olds live on Bribie, so I get up that way most years.
cheers
AJ
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27th December 2007, 08:07 AM #28
The 'pimples' sound to be like outgassing. What happens in our climate, with temperatures increasing during the day, is that the air trapped inside the timber (ply) expands as it warms, and bubbles to the surface.
This happens particularly if you are 'poxying in the morning or even early afternoon, and you are in a warmish shed.
There's an easy fix before you do it though. I leave the ply in the sun for a few minutes before taking them inside to coat. The reverse effect occurs, as the air contracts.
I had it badly on the Goat Island Skiff, which is how I learnt about it, but with a fair bit of sanding, it'll tidy up before the final coat.
Phil, check your PM's for a message from moi!
Cheers,
P
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29th December 2007, 10:58 AM #29
Day 3. (five days later)
The madding crowds that descended for Christmas have departed, and while I miss my grandboy and his dog terribly, at least I have my shed back! We’ve currently got about 90 kph winds so there’s a bit of dust about, but at least I can get stuck in again.
I have a bulkhead to cut out, and butt straps to trim, then I’ll join the bits. I’ll put off epoxy work until later in the day I think, pretending that the wind will abate, which it won’t for a few days.
I’ve still got all the timber to finish sizing, so that should keep me occupied for an hour or two in the meantime.
Pics:
- The cold light of day shows lack of progress in the shed. I’ve emptied the dust extractor bag, but the lack of progress on the ducting is a bit evident. (b) (a) is the timber scantling pile in its half-milled state and (c) the Eureka, waiting for some poxy action!
- All the ply bits ready to become useful. I’m always sort of bemused at how four sheets of ply breaks down into a few bits which glue together to become something completely different.
- The cold light of day shows lack of progress in the shed. I’ve emptied the dust extractor bag, but the lack of progress on the ducting is a bit evident. (b) (a) is the timber scantling pile in its half-milled state and (c) the Eureka, waiting for some poxy action!
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29th December 2007, 11:02 PM #30
More Day 3.
I just couldn’t get any momentum, a bit like the Indian team batting really. I did get all the framing milled, and managed to scrounge a few bits of oregon from my stockpile which will work for the inwhale and gunwhale, although just to up the degree of difficulty a tad (and due to a shortage of likely bits of oregon), I’ll laminate the gunwhale in two bits.
I had to empty the DC bag again, so I guess that's a sign that something was happening.
Tomorrow we glue!
But this evening, I shaped the stem piece, which Michael describes as perhaps the most difficult piece of construction in the whole boat. That may be the case, I'm not sure, but follow my short little tutorial here, and you’ll have it done in less than half an hour of gentle hand plane work.
Pics:
- Rather than using a 31x19 as called up in the plan, I start with a 25 x 50. I was going to drop it to 19 thick, but it got too late to think about firing up a machine, but there’s so little to do it doesn’t matter.
It’s rather important to keep the extra width though, if you want this to be easy, so if you have a piece 50 x 19 that’s fine.
I have it sitting in the vice because it was where I could get the best shot of the markings. Again here I deviate from Mik’s suggestions, as I prefer to mark both sides identically initially, ending up (or starting if you prefer) with a tapered piece. In this case the taper is from 19 to 16mm as per plan. Note the carefully marked centreline. - Here’s the big trick. Mark a line 31mm (the finished depth back from the front). That will leave you 19mm of waste, which is a good thing about now, because you can drive a screw through that bit, and fix it to a block which you can hold in your vice. If you don’t have a vice, don’t despair, you can fix it to a bit of MDF or even your kitchen bench if you like, but if you fix it to something the next bit will be a breeze. Note that the line isn’t clear in this shot, but the arrow points to where it is! (There’s a clearer shot coming up). Note also, the screws are WELL countersunk!
- When the first side is shaped correctly it should look something like this. Actually it should look exactly like this!
- I find it’s easier to get the right shape by working along the centreline first. The hatched bit shows the plane of the work underway. Once I’m down to the centre, I’ll then take the top off the chamfer, then finally plane full width. Note that it’s a sort of spiral (because I can’t find the right word) finished shape.
- Once one side’s done, flip it over, and screw it down again. Note the marks are visible in this photo.
- Finally it’s done. All that’s left to do is to cut off the 19mm waste at the back of the piece, and I’ll do that with a hand saw in the morning. The flat piece will give something to hold it with right down to the last 50 mm or so, which will be trimmed off to length before fitting to the boat.
- Rather than using a 31x19 as called up in the plan, I start with a 25 x 50. I was going to drop it to 19 thick, but it got too late to think about firing up a machine, but there’s so little to do it doesn’t matter.
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