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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairymick View Post
    Gday Mik,
    re the toughness, I stand by my comments. 20% graphite powder by volume is what I use and I would encourage you to try it.
    G'day
    I wonder what effect the graphite has on the lack of UV resistance most epoxies have. I paint mine over the top of epoxy/glass to minimise maintenance.
    cheers
    AJ

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  3. #47
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairymick View Post
    Gday Mik,
    SNIP

    re the toughness, I stand by my comments. 20% graphite powder by volume is what I use and I would encourage you to try it.

    SNIP
    I certainly think it is worth trying - I'm not doubting you for a moment. I'm interested to find out more. Maybe even corroborate your results.

    Quote Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.
    G'day
    I wonder what effect the graphite has on the lack of UV resistance most epoxies have. I paint mine over the top of epoxy/glass to minimise maintenance.
    Many other common plastics are degradeable by UV light as well and are stabilised by adding a pigment to prevent the UV going very deep. So I think graphite would have quite a large positive effect in this regard.

    A second purpose is to prevent the UV getting to the wood. Whenever you see large flakes lifting off the wood surface it is because the UV deteriorates the timber surface and when it breaks down the coating will lift with it too. Graphite should prevent this as well.

    I'd hesitate to quantify it in any way - don't expect it to protect a 50 footer from UV!!!! But the types of boats we are talking about which are mostly stored away from the sun I would expect it to be adequate (maybe much better than adequate).

    MIK

  4. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fraser Coast
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    134

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    I certainly think it is worth trying - I'm not doubting you for a moment. I'm interested to find out more. Maybe even corroborate your results
    No probs mate

    If I remember correctly, I think you might be coming up this way soon.

    If you would like, and I can get days off to co-incide, I could bring one of my boats down for you the drag over sand/paddle etc and see for your self. Sunshine Coast is only a couple of hours away.

    Mate, this stuff really is worth investigating.

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Australia and France
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    Mick, we'll see if we can arrange a get together in a week or two!

    In the meantime, another couple of days of not much happening rowboat wise. My plan of spending a week being a boat builder was well and truly thwarted (no pun intended), by the weather, and the fact that we just happen to live in a place that all our friends visit this time of year.

    I have just about got the Eureka ready for varnishing, which will make pretty much everyone that counts round here very happy!

    I had it in my mind that the rowboat was a project that needed to be finished to a deadline, which was somewhat impacting on my enjoyment, so I've relegated it to the same rank as all my other projects!

    I do plan to keep moving on it during the evenings of the next week, and all being well may manage a test float the week after, but I think Australia Day may be the formal deadline for both boats!!

    I'll start gluing structure onto the bulkheads tomorrow evening, and with a bit of luck we'll be ready to assemble in a few days time!

    cheers,

    P

  6. #50
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    Nov 2003
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    Australia and France
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    Just a small progress report:

    In the last eight days, I've moved all the bits from one side of the garage to the other, and tonight I'll move them back again!

    If I hadn't done that, there'd be nothing to report.

    Just as well this is a hobby!

    P

  7. #51
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    Nov 2003
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    Australia and France
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    During the week, Storer moved all the bits over the other side again, so he could do some work on the PDRacers.

    Now I've got to move them back AGAIN!

    Stay tuned boys and girls, there's movement afoot!

    P

  8. #52
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    Apr 2002
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    Brisbane
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    Looks like testing carbon/ graphite loaded epoxy could be a woodies gathering, group exercise like breaking rocker's joints.

    Speaking of rocker he would be the man to speak to about field applyable methods of assessing hardness, considering his background as a minerologist.

    anyway back to the wjole graphite thing.

    I've looked at the powder in the glasscraft catalogue They sell it under the west system brand & it is recomended to
    improve durability
    improve UV satbility

    and

    suposedly improve friction.....hmm

    I can certainly see the first two benifits are a no brainer.....back plastics are always the most dirable and the most UV resistant and the hardest.
    You just have to examine any plastic product that comes in various coulours.
    Black will always be harder, Stiffer and last in the outdoors better.
    In the vast majority of cases the black colour is some form of carbon.

    The graphite may improve friction indirectly by allowing the epoxy to be polished easier and it my impart a portion of self polishing and may be even a short term and minor antifouling sort of property.

    west system recomend up to 10%.

    It is probly likly that past that the strenght of the resin may be effected. as anybody who has played with the stuff will know, a small amount of graphite goes an awfulll long way, especilay if it is finely ground.

    cheers

    just some thaughts
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  9. #53
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    Sep 2007
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    Fraser Coast
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    G'day Soundman,

    I am no industrial chemist and have no knowledge of the colour thing.

    the graphite enriched epoxy really does work. I paddle skinny water most of the time and this includes swampland that has been flooded by dams filling. There are lots of logs and tops of trees/branches just under the surface and my boats scrape over them often and as a matter of course.

    At the worst, All I come out with are miner scuff marks in the graphite. Most times, not even that.

    I believe the concept was develloped by flats boat fishermen inthe US for superior abrasion resistance when working their boats over oyster and barnicle encrusted rocks.

    I have also done this and the stuff even stands up to this sort of abuse surprisingly well.

    I would not build a wooden boat without putting this stuff on it. It really is that good.

    By all means do all the tests you like. The stuff works and I stand by my original claims. I have even offered the use of my boats for the tests.

    Regards,

    Mick
    Last edited by hairymick; 25th January 2008 at 07:18 AM. Reason: forgot signature

  10. #54
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    Apr 2002
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    Brisbane
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    Oh I have absolutely no doubt that itimproves abrasion resistance and UV stability, & it will almost certainly be slipperier on hard surfaces.

    As I mentioned I recon it will be sort of antifouling with regard to weed & mud & crud, which cany realy slow you down in the skinny fresh.

    We HAVE to test it.....otherwise we wouldnt have anything to break at parties

    I've admired you little boats both here and on the bass forum.
    It's your post on the bass forum that have stired me up to build a pirogue or two

    (Is pirogue building a disease like pen turning?)

    A AA AAA AAAA AACHOO...... Oh NO .... I think I'm comming down with it.

    Mine will be black on the bottom.


    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  11. #55
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    May 2002
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    in the outer reaches of Sth Oz
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    Soundy you are in trouble its a contagious disease and worse (or better) there is no known cure.
    10 years ago I built a small dinghy as a tender and then a dory cos I could and thought I had the disease beat but then came a canoe and then repair a plastic snot canoe that I got cheap. Now I'm cured I said and just as I was recuperating alog came hairy with his kayak I'm doomed I tell yas I'm doomed
    Pete
    What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
    Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)

  12. #56
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    Sep 2007
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    Thanks pete and Soundy, i didn't mean to sound so stiff there, sorry fellers.

    You guys really "need" a pirogue too. I just don't understand why they are not more popular out here.

    They make a great first build for blokes just getting into this stitch and glue caper and when done, are surprisingly good paddlecraft in skinny water.

    and - of course, we all know what happens once we get some-one started on messing with ply and that lovely epoxy stuff, don't we

    I am hopelessly addicted now and my work just fills in time between sawdust and epoxy fixes. there are a couple of beautiful Canadian Canoes in the prep stages and when they are done, Then, there is this really, really nice rowing skiff that I have my eyes on...... oh yeah, and another kayak - like I really need another kayak

  13. #57
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    Nov 2003
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    Australia and France
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    I interrupt this hijack to explain why I havnen't been making too much progress. I've been playing you see. We've had our favourite designer Michael Storer staying over for a bit, and he was joined last weekend by Texan's Chuck "the Duck" and his lovely wife Sandra, both of Duckworks internet magazine and boat building supplies fame, and Steve Wagstaff turned up to launch his new PDR so that meant playing!

    Of course these could be on the PDRacer thread, but I'm making excuses here!

    Pics:

    1. So many boats, so little lawn!

    2. Steve leaves shore for the first time in his beautiful Orange boat

    3. Chuck waddles away in one of the original Oz PDRacers

    4. Chuck and Steve at sea

    5. Mik and Chuck preparing to take the ladies for a cruise

    6. Boatmik is happiest wearing a lifejacket, and standing in sand with his trousers wet up to the knees.

    cheers,

    P (helping one of the kids move house tomorrow, sailing Monday, maybe gluing Sunday!)

  14. #58
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    Jul 2005
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    My and some of Chuck's Pics are here on this page.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik...7603783850684/

    Peter's rowboat is all cut up and joined to length in his garage.

    We will probably have three PDRs (including Steve's new orange boat), the GIS, Two Eurekas and good time with some boating friends on Monday.

    MIK

  15. #59
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    Fraser Coast
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    Sorry Midge,

    Say g'day to Chuck & Sandra for me please.

  16. #60
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    Why sorry? Sorry if I gave you the impression you needed to be sorry!

    Chuck and Sandra are currently camping in the wilds of NZ so communication will be a little on the scarce side, but I'm sure they fell your greeting!

    cheers.

    P

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