Thread: Drop-in Sail for Quick Canoe

I don't think the Quick Canoe with the outriggers would be a good boat to consider for much coastal stuff - an out and sail around on a nice day is one thing ... but to do several days travel up or down the coast might not work too well unless you were really sure of the prevailing wind direction.

But lake and river work would be very fine. The advantage is everything is pretty light and simple - the greater capability of coastal work will increase the complexity somewhat.

Best wishes
Michael

I've posted a video, and will probably get another one or two up on Flickr this weekend of sailing at Tygart Lake, WV: Tygart 007 spar bend | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

It looks to me as if the yard might be too bendy. Pause the video at about six and fourteen seconds too examine wrinkles in sail and the flex of the spars. Mast and boom seem okay now. This was taken with about six mph breeze.

And, yes, the mast is strong enough for a knockdown in a bit more wind!

Howdy ... I think in 6mph of wind you could afford to reduce the downhaul a bit.

The setting you have it on there shows a very flat sail - ideal for when the boat starts being overpowered.

But I think a little less downhaul in this wind and get up to the current amount in about 10 to 12 mph.

Give it a try with and with a bit less in 6mph and see how it goes. Sailing will tell you.

MIK

MIK, Do you think the yard is too bendy?

I think Mik is trying to say that the yard may not be too bendy, it might be good, but that you're applying too much downhaul for the wind conditions. The sail is very flat, especially aft of the mast, and this would be acceptable if it was blowing 15+, but it's not, its whimpering at 6. So, release some pressure on the downhaul. The bendy yard might work in your favor because it will allow the sail to balloon in lighter air for more power, and then let you flatten the sail when it's really windy. Experimentation will tell you.

Nice job, it looks good I like what I see!

It is pretty bendy though.

Nice rudder stock too, where did you get the rudder hardware?

I love what you're trying to do here, Paul, it's awesome. I just saw that you put some time in that yard, I'd keep experimenting before tossing it and starting again, with a canoe, it might be perfect.

I'm trying to figure out some sort of canoe rig so I can get a boat on the roof of the car, have some performance, maybe with outriggers, and paddle if there's no wind and/or I just want to paddle. Trying to find that perfect combination for New England inland waters. Nice job, so far.

It might be that the yard is too bendy ... But it could be that the downhaul is too tight too.

If the sail goes that flat because the yard bends without too much downhaul tension then a new one might be a good idea.

But trying it first with less downhaul tension in lighter winds is cheaper - so should be tried first!

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Like Paul's Quick Canoe it tacked pretty slowly too often needing help from a paddle.

MIK

The reason the quick canoe tacked slowly was that it had no rudder. All directional control was by weight shift, sail trim and adjustment of the leeboard. So in order to prevent a stall in light air, I would generally make a paddle stroke of two as I began to come about. Once a rudder was added, that "problem" was completely eliminated.

Traditional paddling canoes with sailing rigs often stall head to wind during a tack because the fine-ness of the ends creates a lot of drag when the ends have to spin sideways.

So the skeg/fin arrangement of the standard Quick Canoe might have a similar effect.

Have you started to develop an opinion about the bigger sail? Clinton1 might be interested in getting some guidance on size as he is thinking of adding a rig to his standard (ie fatter) Quick canoe.

MIK

Clinton1 might be interested in getting some guidance on size as he is thinking of adding a rig to his standard (ie fatter) Quick canoe.

I certainly am interested, and am willing to test the limits of reasonable.

Hi Clinton,

It would be especially helpful in keeping the comparisons of apples to apples and oranges to oranges if you were to also be using MIK's Drop-In Rig. With my narrow version of the canoe, the little 21 ft sail made the boat go well and never felt like there was too much heeling force. The whole rig fit into the canoe or into a car neatly, but after awhile I got to feeling that she could handle more. The dimentions of my new 39 ft sail was interpolated from MIK's little sail, the 89 ft lugsail he designed for the OZ PDR, MIK's e-mail suggestions from Andy Linn's article Design of a 76sqft Lugsail , and from the fact that I was cutting an old sail of a limited size when I made this one. The little drop-in canoe sail and my 39 ft sail are not as high peaked as most of the other balanced lugs around and that helps to keep heeling force in check. Heeling force changes very noticeably with height. With my ten and a half foot mast, if I hoist the sail as high as possible, I feel the heeling force much more than if I stop it a foot shy of the max. Last time out, I set the tack back closer to the mast to have more room under the boom and with the halyard attached at the mid-point on the yard, have not noticed anything untoward from that.

I am guessing that with your "extra" six inches of beam, a low aspect balanced lug sail of about 39 ft might be a comfortable starting place. (Remember that I am still a beginning self-taught sailor...you may well be comfortable with more). I'm doubtful that I'll ever be successfully hiking out very far or sitting on the rail in the little mountain lakes around here due both to the narrowness of the boat and to the gusty, rapidly changing nature of our upland winds.

I will be happy to help any way I can and look forward to learning from your efforts.

I think this approach is starting to sound good and well formed. A slightly lower sail about 39 square feet.

After all it can be reefed.

I will beef up the yard design too. I think this is looking like a good option for you Clinton.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxCi1ZadQP8"]YouTube - P8280081.AVI[/ame]