Thread: Eureka Canoe
25th Jan 2006, 12:32 PM #76
I'm going home to work on mine early today!!
It looks terrific! It also proves that I've wasted a lot of time mucking round with the bevelled joints!
I'm not confident that I can get the external glass good enough to clear finish though, but it looks great so you've convinced me to perservere.
Well done. How long do you reckon it took to build?
P (still building the prototype remember!)
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25th Jan 2006, 05:37 PM #77Intermediate Member
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I don't know exactly when I started but I see from the photos that I had it all stiched up by 15/12/05 but no glass yet. I took it away coated but not varnished on January 6. According to my Visa statements I bought the plans on Nov 21 and the materials on Nov 25. I worked at least 2 days a week up until December 21 [on computing that is] and I was very busy with music until December 17.
The answer? I have no idea. I suspect an elapsed time of 3 1/2 weeks but about 40 hours work. The real advantage in my opinion of stitch and glue boats is that you have the boat shape very quickly and this urges you to keep at it.
I would like your opinion on whether or not I should also remove the centre spreader and try to slant the side out a bit by increasing the centre width to 800 mm from the existing 740 mm? I will not sue you if you tell me to do it and I break something.
I left mine wood finished to cover all my splashed epoxy.
25th Jan 2006, 09:38 PM #78
Thanks for the photos. The canoe looks great. Now that I've seen a finished one I will definately be getting a copy of the plans and building one as soon as I can get a few other projects out of the way.Have a nice day - Cheers
26th Jan 2006, 02:08 PM #79Originally Posted by deepdug
I know I sent you a personal reply on this a couple of days ago, but thought it would be good to post it here for the public record.
Your feedback - thanks hugely - has made it clear that the two temporary spreaders to keep the sides apart at deck level while the boat is built are not enough. Your boat and Midges are almost 2 inches (50mm) different in beam - which is much too much - so I wll modify the drawing to show a third temporary spreader in the middle from now on and maybe move the ones in the ends as well.
I will be sorting this out in the next coupla days - just got back home (Adelaide) after a month away. I will be contacting all the plan purchasers from the last 6 months or so to pass on the info as well.
Any previous purchasers can also email me on email@example.com if they want to get the info a bit faster and maybe a bit more reliably. Mention Eureka in the subject line.
The two spreader method was lifted from the smaller Eureka 130 where it worked fine. Probably the difference is purely in the extra length of the 155 - the temporary spreaders at the ends have a limited capacity to affect the with in the middle of the boat accurately - just too far away.
An additional precaution is to make sure the sides of the boat run in a smooth curve after it is stitched and before the seams are located with fibreglass tape. The easy way is to just temporarily clamp the gunwales in place to stiffen up the floppy plywood.
In a way it shows how foolproof the method is - both boats look very smart indeed by reports and/or photos.
So as to your question about removing the centre spreader . . .
The items that make the boat retain its shape at the gunwale level are from weakest to strongest
1/ the glass tape along the hull panel seams
2/ the bulkheads and end decks
3/ the gunwales - and the seats
4/ the centre spreader
If the centre speader comes out and you are moving the seats further down while replacing them with those nice trad cane ones then you have removed the main limitations on changing the shape of the boat.
The gunwales, while stiff, will be quite happy to bend significant amounts.
If you do this the main items that are left to stop you from bending too far are the end decks and buoyancy tank bulkheads. If you overdo it and severely stress the structure, that's where any damage will occur. They are very strong so you will have to put in heaps of load to break them.
My feeling is because the seats are coming out it may not be too hard to do something about the centre spreader at the same time.
Probably the best strategy is just to cut the ends off the spreader close to the hull then chisel the remains out - replace with a new bit of wood.
It is only really worth doing if the seats are coming out at the same time. I don't think you will be able to make enough difference if the seats are in place.
27th Jan 2006, 08:03 AM #80Intermediate Member
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As you know my boat is currently 745mm at the spreader. You told me that another boat was 800mm. I still do not know what the designed beam is at the spreader.
27th Jan 2006, 02:02 PM #81Originally Posted by deepdug
Just got back to my desktop computer (home to Adelaide) to check the original drawings.
The beam is 856mm in the centre. So Biting Midges' (Peter's) boat is closer though it is made of thinner ply.
If you are planning to push the middle of the boat out as we were discussing I doubt that you would get that much. Maybe you would, but I would suspect there would be significant stress on the structure. Also watch that the gunwales don't take on a funny "S" shape in the ends - just look along the boat.
Have almost finished modifying the plans.
I finally realised that your pics were on the previous page - nothing like a boat built from wood!! Very nice. Do you know what the weight is? What sort of ply? Did you add any extra fibreglass?
email me on firstname.lastname@example.org if you want a quick reply as I won't be able to check this bulletin board for a few days.
28th Jan 2006, 06:53 PM #82
Doesn't time fly when you're having fun?? Three weeks after the last work was done, I've been back in the shed!
All the Inwhale spacers are on, (at last) see pic 1.
Other pictures are as follows
2) No point in using one piece of timber when five will do the job , so I've laminated the centre spreader out of a few scraps. Actually I tried to get smart and bookmatch the curve of the grain to follow the curve of the spreader...but it'll just miss by a bit! :eek:
3) Centre Spreader Template, and temporary spreader with a LOT of curves doodled on.
Michael's plans say of the centre spreader: "It can be sculpted to look sweet". After jiggering around for hours, I can see why
a) he didn't suggest a solution
b) deepdug went for the square look. (which is fine by the way!)
I used more or less the same curve as the bulkhead top, and the deck camber which was a bit too great, and the template in the pic will have another half-inch or so taken out of the width by the time I get it finished!
OK, I know.... I'll just build it and stop thinking... it's a canoe for crying out loud! (You can have the template when I've finished Rowan!)
4) Seat trial fitting. I still have a bit of work to do, will rebate the tops into the beams, and a bit of sanding still to go too, but I'm happy with them.
The plans call for simple ply seats, which of course would have been finished by now, but I rather like the lighter look of these (and I saved 200 grams in weight as well!) .
Oh, Rowan, you can have the router template and jig too if you like them!
Now we wait for the epoxy to go off before we can make more progress!
29th Jan 2006, 11:33 AM #83Intermediate Member
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My spreader is that shape because I was in a great hurry to take my canoe on my annual vacation. I am unhappy with the stability of the boat so I will most likely try to make it a bit more beamy.
During my research into seats I saw some centre spreaders in the good old USA which double as portage yokes. Since I seem certain to remove my current spreader and since I now have all the time in the world I may try for that look as well as the cane insert seats.
I have just been jumping on and off of my bathroom scales whilst holding the Eureka and the answer seems to be that mine weighs 56 lbs. - 25.4 kg.
29th Jan 2006, 11:40 AM #84
I wasn't having a go at your spreader shape, just explaining the options. (Post now edited!)
I looked at the portage yokes for a bit, then couldn't work out how to make one to fit my wife without her realising what was going on!
I don't think this boat will be carried by one person too often though!
I like the idea of carrying it onto a set of bathroom scales (I was going to hold it vertical on them!) We could use that method using two scales for bigger boats as well I think: a person at each end, each standing on a scale?
After your comment re: stability, I've adjusted the spreader length and the boat is now at the designed 845mm.
I admire the fact that you actually did get it finished for your holidays! I had planned to, but decided it was all too hard, hence the month long abberation with no progress!
29th Jan 2006, 02:25 PM #85
Great to see that you got some time in the shed Peter. It's great to see the step by step construction details. I showed SWMBO the photos of deepdug's canoe and I have the go ahead to make one so I will take you up the offer for the jigs.
Look forward to the next post!!Have a nice day - Cheers
29th Jan 2006, 11:17 PM #86
Strange how things go slowly some days!
With a few visitors and things at that "need to be coated with epoxy" stage, progress just didn't happen today.
I have glued the seat assemblies, coated the inner face of the inwhales, and the underside and sides of the spacers, as well as the bottom and sides of the centre spreader.
Because there's no way to sand these bits once installed, I now have to wait for the epoxy to harden enough to sand, then glue them in, which I'll probably do on Thursday night, as I'm away for a few days (business).
Then it'll be a case of coating the seats, giving them a final fit, and bunging them in along with the deck beams.
I'm a bit worried about the deck, as reported by deepdug, it's pretty stiff. I've sanded off one whole ply and it's still pretty rigid, so we'll do a trial fit with gaffer tape next weekend.
Then it's turn her over and glass the outside!
P (turning a little job into a monster! :eek: )
30th Jan 2006, 06:26 PM #87Intermediate Member
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I think that your slotted seats look very nice.
Maybe I will take the easy way out and do that. I mean - easier than trying to import seats from the USA!
31st Jan 2006, 01:04 PM #88Originally Posted by bitingmidge
1/ Ones that will farnarckle around for hours and come up with something timeless and elegant.
2/ Those who will just get on with it will also produce something timeless, elegant and quick )
So the plans carefully cater for both types. By mentioning the alternatives but not mentioning how gets Midge's creative juices going. By just giving the square measurements means people like DeepDug and myself can just get on with it.
By the way Midge, I concur with Doug. Your slotted seats are REALLY pretty - and not too much extra work and just perhaps they will reduce the water that ends up on the seat.
Very cool indeed.
Thanks for the additional feedback on the decks. What thickness ply did you use? This is one of the areas that Doug mentioned was less than fun.
Thankyou both again for the excellent feedback.
31st Jan 2006, 01:24 PM #89Originally Posted by deepdug
Tell me how you go with getting the beam out more toward the designed width. It would be really interesting to see how much of the stiffenss of the shape is in the seats and centrespreader. It will be much more flexible with them out, but the question is how far you can move it.
The weight is good - about half the weight of a nicely finished fibreglass canoe. Did you use 6mm gaboon? I think you said, but I don't remember.
(note for readers who missed it - the plans specify 5mm gaboon which just right. However no-one has been importing it for some time so the options are to go for either 4 or 6mm or move to a 4mm hoop pine which is a bit stiffer and heavier than the gaboon.)
I know Midge used 4mm and look forward to poking his boat (hammer? housebrick?) when I get up to Qld to see it in a week or two. He will probably increase the stiffness by glassing the outside of the very bottom panel instead of just taping it in.
31st Jan 2006, 06:39 PM #90Intermediate Member
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I have been exercising my mind all day [whilst also grinding out a computer programme or two] on how to tackle the widening.
One of my thoughts was to cut the spreader at the centre and try to push the sides out and then glue a piece into the middle maybe of contrasting wood to try to make it look as if I meant it.
It is not that I am too poor to buy a new spreader but I do not look forward to undoing all of the fillet joints and glue that I put on the spreader.
My boat is made out of 6mm gaboon which is what Duckflat gave me in the kit I bought. That ply is an absolute bugger to bend around the top of the bulkhead but as Peter said it does look quite good on the finished boat. I was very tempted to take the deck out to the edge of the gunwale where it would have been mush easier to clamp. I even considered rebating all of the top edge to allow the deck to sit level with the rest of the gunwale. It would have been a lot of messing about but would have avoided the most difficult step.
As I was so badly out of practice with woodwork I made some immediate mistakes which are evident in the missing layer of ply right at the butt straps. I do not have a large flat area on which to work and I found it very difficult to handle glue, straps, sheets, hammer and panel pins. The result was that the sheets did not exactly line up and I took a ply off at the join in a few spots to get it smooth. As it is under the strap I did not compromise the strength of the panel but my errors will always be there to remind me unless I paint over them which I am loth to do.
The more this thread continues the more comments I think of about my trials during construction. In the end I know that it cannot be too difficult or I could not have done it in the time with the facilities at my disposal.
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