Hmmm! I know what you mean, Pete, about those but joints! I discovered on the weekend that the joint on one of my Bilge panels was about 1/2 ml wider on one edge to the other. That translates to about 1cm drop on one end!! I don't think it would be wise to try and undo all that epoxy glue, so I guess I will just have to ignor the problem and hope it doesn't matterm It will make one side about 1/2 cm lower than the other, so if the canoe goes round in circles, we will just have to paddle harder on the other side! Bit of a shame, all the same.
regards
Walesey

[quote=Boatmik;524862]I'm drawing up a rig to go with the drop in outriggers.
I reckon a lateen rig (allows a short mast) around the 80 sq ft mark.
Rudder off the back and it will really go.
I used the drop in outriggers on a strip canoe once - was a rocket.
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This I am seriously interested in. Would make Eureka a full or better-than-full replacement for my Bolger Teal.

G'day all.
New to list. Been looking at it for a week or three, and at Eureka for a month or three longer than that.
Lashed out on plans yesterday when I went to Flat Duck to collect materials. Won't be starting right away. Am building a(nother) kayak of my own design first. Averaging a bit more than a boat a year so hopefully won't threaten Midge's build record. Here's a pic of my most recent boat. The paddle is an adaptation of your plans Mik. Used two layers of 4mm ply for the blades (because that's what I have), then planed the back faces down to a 4mm edge. Strength where it's needed, minus a heap of weight, and for $20 outlay have a paddle which is nearly as good as a $200 Kober that I owned 20 years ago.
Look forward to participating in the list as things progress.
cheers
AJ
Adelaide

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Probably a bit late for you blokes but I've worked out a technique which might be something for a future version of the plans.

Had the same problem with my first attempt at a "long" kayak. Tiny errors in a 50mm butt joint produced massive errors at the chine ends. On that first boat, I undid the joints, marked the proper shape out on my build table, & rejointed over the marked pattern.

The last two boats, I have done the butt joins before cutting out the parts - errors in a 1220mm abutment are insignificant at the chine ends compared with a 50 or even 200mm butt.

This would work for the bottom & lower chine of Eureka. It's a lot more marking out, but a lot less opportunity for error. Especially without a strongback to pull things into line....
That's how I'll do my Eureka anyway.

cheers
AJ

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Walesey
Let us know how you go. Can't speak for Eureka, but my experience with my kayak was that the panel simply won't fit with majorly distorting its neighbours. Also that symmetry was more important than accuracy. Small assymmetries introduce big twist. Symmetrical inaccuracies alter the final shape but at least it stays straight. I had to break the joins & do it over. (It's not a major trial - the butt strap is soft wood - sands/carves/planes off easy, and there's not much strength in the join without it.) The improvement in results (on my kayak) far outweighed the effort.
cheers
AJ

With the butt joints, I mark a line around 500 mm long parallel to the edge of the ply, and centrish on each panel before cutting out. (Measured the same distance from the edge, like a longitudinal grid line).

When the two panels are butted, the lines register (or nearly register), and when the butt straps go on, it's easy to lay a metre long steel rule along the line to check that the panels are in line.

If that doesn't make sense, I'll do a drawing!

Cheers,

P

Thanks BOAT and Midge,
These hints seem like a bit of good information, but why didn't you tell me BEFORE I stuffed my butt joint???

MIK, perhaps you should incorporate a "Hints and Tips" appendix in your next edition of the plans? You will need to put the appendix at the BEGINNING though 'cos I tend not to read the end until after I have done the job!! (not up to that part yet........!)

So the consensus of oppinion then is that I should break my crook butt joint and re-do it. Yuk! I was hoping to avoid that!!

I'll let you know how I go!

regards
Walesey

Hmm... sorry about that.

I've just gone back to the pics of my joint, and the lines aren't visible. That's because I leave them away from the edge so they don't get cast in epoxy.

You'll see that I also chamfered the butt slightly. It was an experiment to get a really tight accurate joint, and to make sure it filled with glue, and it seemed to work for me. Don't try it if you don't have a really sharp plane though!

Cheers,

P

Wellllll.... I wuz gunna. Honest !!
But that would have short-changed the thread.
cheers
AJ

[quote=b.o.a.t.;528988]It has been on a back burner for a while but I have to do something about it shortly. IT will sail rings around the teal - after all it is a multihull.

Any pics of the paddle!

By the way sorry about being slow to get back here - I've both been sick and involved in a monster computer update.

MIK

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[quote=Boatmik;530582]G'day Michael
That wouldn't be hard. My Teal was a bit of an experiment. Did the fancy inwales like Eureka but _much_ lighter, mucked around with poly sails to prove I know sod-all about sail cut. Also NACA foil sections loosely similar proportions to those on Green Is 15 pics. Which are too small but just the right length in the lower Finniss R. at normal water levels. Sweet little boat but not perfect. http://users.chariot.net.au/~ajulian/

[quote=Boatmik;530582]Done 3 paddles now of different blade sizes. Used your plans as a how-to guide more than anything else. I prefer a wider, shorter, & less angled blade. Comes from being a former attempted white water paddler I think. The first one with small blades was for my 11y/o daughter. I left full width timber on the back of the blade - feared it would be a bit flimsy else. By paddle #3, I'd got over that. Weighs a bit less than 1Kg compared with a plastic/aluminium 1.5Kg. And is *alive* in the hands.

Hope you are well & truly on the mend.
cheers
AJ

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Cheers AJ,

Paddles came up nice!!!

MIK

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Hi there Mik and all,

Sorry about my temporary absence over the last few weeks!

The Eureka is still on the Table Tennis Table. We have had a couple of weeks of School Holidays over here and so Grandpa has had a break from coming over for boat building. That should all start up again this week. I have been distracted by my other interest of Train Modelling, and have not spent much time on the canoe.

The canoe has seen a little bit of "one step forward and two steps back" We ended up separating both the side panel and the bilge panel on one side by planing off the butt strap. we then laid the pieces on top of the other side, and re-glued them so that they would EXACTLY match the other side. At least, if the sides are not right, they will at least be the same!. We have now discovered a slight inaccuracy in the bottom panel. There is a couple of millimetres more between one side and the centre line than between the other side and the centre line (i.e., the bottom panel is not quite laterally symmetrical). I guess I should have checked Grandpa's marking out a bit more closely (??). We are still trying to decide what to do about that, or if it will make much difference. I am hesitant to remove any wood from the edge of the bottom panel because there already seems to be a bit of a gap at the butt-strap join line.

I have machined all the timber to size, for gunwales, etc, but have not scarfed the lengths together yet.

We will see what Grandpa suggests when he comes on Wednesday.

Of course, any contribution you might like to make to solving our little problem would be much appreciated! And thanks for keeping an eye on me. It is reassuring to know that you are only an e-mail away!

Thanks for staying in contact

Regards
Ian

I think the bilge panel was the important one to fix.

A few mm on the bottom is much less than the two inches difference in the sides.

In general up to around 6mm is nothing on a boat of this construction so long as the curves are fair (run smoothly) the boat will look fine. It ain't rocket science ) (but if you read about NASA they make exactly these errors too!

You can fudge the bottom at any rate - it is more important that the edge of the panels are fair - running in a smooth curve. If the bottom cuts have wavered inside the line in a couple of places just mark the positions clearly adjacent to the waver. Then when the boat is stitched up you need to eyeball that area and just tighten the stitching enough to allow the adjacent panel to run fair.

You see, if there is a hollow in the edge of the precut panel - if the stitching is pulled completely tight in that area you create a hollow in the surface - but there is total control of the stitching tension - any remaining gaps will be filled by epoxy with no problems at all but you might have to put some brown packaging tape on the outside of that area only to stop the epoxy running through - more a tidiness issue.

The most important thing with building boats is to keep things fair. If you keep the panels and edges of a boat fair you can get away with amazing asymmetry.

A sailing club mate of mine had a really slow Heron - he couldn't make it go. I helped him sort out the rig and foils (he didn't mind getting advice from a 15 year old) and when I sailed the boat it did OK with the changes - but not quite as good as the best.

He decided to remove some of the excess paint to lighten the boat - and when he had the boat upside down noticed the centrecase was a bit off to the side. He measured more carefully and found his 11'3" boat was wider on one side by an inch and a half.

It was fair! So the error was indetectible. Eyes are your most powerful boatbuilding tool.

MIK

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G'day Ian
If it's just a couple of mm, then it's a nothing! If a couple of mm is more like 10 or 15mm, then it's more work, but far from a disaster. The absolute extreme outside worst is you might need to get another $60 sheet of ply.

If it were me, I'd re-mark a straight centre-line, measure it up & mark the too wide, the good & the too narrow spots (in mm on masking tape?). Then trim down any bottom panel oversize to 'right' & fair, and allow a gap between any undersize areas & the bilge panels when wiring it up. Leave the width markings above so that you know where to tighten & slacken the ties, & how much gap to leave.

Gaps can be filled with epoxy putty & will be barely detectable when taped unless it is like, 15mm wide and you are using white filler in your epoxy under varnish. My fist attempt at stitch & glue had 15 & 20mm gaps between bottom & bilges up at the bow. But you can't tell without removing the paint. Nowhere near as critical as your bilge panels & edges for overall shape & fairness. Main thing, as Mik writes, is that your panel edges are fair sweeps, and you don't tighten those sweeps into concaves in adjacent panels to form hollows. (As I just did with the keel of my current kayak build... )

cheers
AJ

Hi Mik ,Biting Midge, trying to post a couple of pics of Eureka under sail . Made sail from old spinnaker sock (that dosen't make it a spinnaker) and hung it up on the butt end of an old surf rod . Used tuna long line clips for cleats . No centre board ! Find that I can sail just better than 90 degrees to wind by moving my weight forward to almost amidships and gradually firming up sail ..seems to be enough bite from the Vee at bow and stern....no paddle or rudder used . Ease sail to run down wind .. Not flash sailing but suits as auxilary to my primary use of paddling . Had one day out in 20k and covered 4 klm downwind in better than 20 mins . Loving it , cheers Grandpa Pete .

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