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| Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans For the multitude of wooden boat fans that use, and need info on Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans. Put your questions etc here and they will be answered and dealt with quicker and easier by the man himself and others in the know. |
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18th Oct 2007, 01:40 AM
|  | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
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Great Attitude budwana! Good luck with the build.
Michael |
18th Oct 2007, 06:29 PM
| | Apprentice (new member) | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BANORA PT
Posts: 8
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Quote: |
I always hava good day, Just some better than others
| Can anyone from the Tweed Heads area tell me where I can locate timber and ply for the Eureka 155
And if there is anyone with the Knowledge:
What is the difference between Exterior ply-Marine Ply ? meaning can I use this to build my project.
Just seem to have run into a brick wall
Any help at is greatly appreciated |
18th Oct 2007, 06:46 PM
| | Golden Member | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tweed Coast, NSW
Posts: 946
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Timberall, Cudgen (Behind the new BP Servo at 2nd KIngscliff exit off H'way) |
18th Oct 2007, 06:56 PM
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fraser Coast
Posts: 134
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Exterior grade ply is generally made from some sort of hardwood and is heavier (considerably) than marine ply. I believe the glues are similar? i built a cajun pirogue with it and it turned out fine.
Gaboon BS1088 marine ply (beautiful stuff) in 4mm is available at Australian Wood Panels in Brisbane, at very competitave prices. |
19th Oct 2007, 12:47 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| | 
Howdy,
Aircraft, exterior and marine plywoods can all be made of the same species - whether hard or softwood.
They all use the same glue.
The defining characteristic is that the quality of the veneers gets better as you go from exterior to marine and better still when marine to aircraft ply.
A lower number of voids and a lower allowable number of repairs.
The reason for hardwood to be used is that a lot of the cheap exterior plywood is tropical hardwood. There are some very superior softwood exterior plywoods made in Australia - but the problem is a lot of them are metric sheets - Australia seems to be about the only country that makes them. Problem is a lot of boats require imperial sheets including the Eureka.
The other side is that there are boats that are really well designed and virtually deserve to be built of good quality light materials because it relates to the function.
A fibreglass canoe the same size as the Eureka is likely to be a real pain to carry at around 90lbs plus.
A 6mm thick Gaboon Ply Eureka with the seams glassed will come out at 44lbs 19kg which makes it really sweet to paddle or get onto the car roof or lug down to the water. With 4mm ply and some discreet lightweight glassing you can get the weight down to 15kg - or 34lbs.
Built it of 6mm hardwood and it will come out much closer to the weight of the fibreglass canoe. It won't have any structural problems - but maybe the owner will when they have to get it on the car singlehanded or drag it across a couple of hundred metres of mud or sand at low tide.
Best wishes
Michael |
19th Oct 2007, 04:27 PM
| | Apprentice (new member) | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BANORA PT
Posts: 8
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Walesey
These photos are worth there weight in gold as far as I am concerned.
Not being a boat builder these photo's helped explain a lot.
As they say (whoever they are) a picture is worth a thousand words.
Perhaps in the next design they may have join the dots for me.
To the people that gave me the different tips for Ply thank you.
I have located Plywood at Mister Plywood Labrador Gold Coast |
19th Oct 2007, 10:24 PM
| | Apprentice (new member) | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BANORA PT
Posts: 8
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Thanks for the help Cruzi Timberall have no marine timbers at all
My main search now is for Oregon
Tried the dump further south from there also. No luck there either.
Oregon is like the hens teeth
Soooo If anyone has suggestion please post |
19th Oct 2007, 11:07 PM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Howdy,
you can access ply and epoxy at good prices from Boatcraft Pacific http://boatcraft.com.au/
They also can supply timber, but I'm not sure how competitive the price is - the quality should be OK.
It is hard to get Oregon these days. Most go for one of the varieties of plantation pine - Hoop Pine or NZ white pine. Basically any medium density straight grained timber with good gluing properties.
Some here might have some idea. You don't want anything heavy in a Eureka!
Best wishes.
MIK |
20th Oct 2007, 01:30 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fraser Coast
Posts: 134
| |
A lot depends on the quality of finish you are trying to achieve.
If you are aiming at a show piece, use the best stuff you can get. I don't know very much about species and/or their characteristics.
If you are just looking to build a good - serviceable boat that is going to be used and abused, (like my boats), have a look at some of the fingerjointed pine at your local hardware.it is not pretty or elegant but I have used it on two pirogues and it seems to hold up to my abuse pretty well.
If weight is not a problem, I would recommend some seasoned, knot free spotty gum. I have also used this and it lends itself very well to compound bends, but it is heavy and will add significant weight to your boat.
Another alternative is to obtain shorter lengths of quality wood and scarf them together. This also works well and the shorter pieces you need are more easily found. |
20th Oct 2007, 03:03 PM
|  | AJ | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Adelaide SA Age: 49
Posts: 1,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairymick  If weight is not a problem, I would recommend some seasoned, knot free spotty gum. I have also used this and it lends itself very well to compound bends, but it is heavy and will add significant weight to your boat. | The rool I read once for designing & building any canoe:
"simplicate, and add lightness".
Hence the rotary moulded pastic boats off the shelf weigh 26-32 KG for a 12ft kayak vs my boats 12-14 KG.
Go for the light-weight timbers every time unless there is a good reason for something harder & heavier - keel or stem caps, or thin rubbing strips on gun'l outers.
cheers |
23rd Oct 2007, 02:13 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Howdy, There are people who can do a good job of almost anything they do and others who make everything look hard. Admitedly this is a neat job for peel ply but unless the builder has done it before or seems handy I would much rather they saw it done first. The bumps over the wires might cause some air bubbles too if the wiring was done in a way that makes the glass bow up excessively - this will happen on a certain number of projects.
Poorly applied peel ply makes much more work than it saves as you have to sand everything down to get rid of the voids/air bubbles.
Well applied peel ply is a miracle worker.
But, in the end it is not up to me! So people will decide what they feel up to.
Best wishes.
MIK |
25th Oct 2007, 05:54 PM
| | Apprentice (new member) | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BANORA PT
Posts: 8
| |
 Hi all, This has to be the greatest week I have had for some time.
Contacting Australian Wood Panels Brisbane I now have 3 sheets of 4mm Gaboon.
I have failed to find any oregon recycled or new.
My next chore was to locate Paulawina after a negative reply from many.
Whitewood at Tyalgum a little Slice of Heaven.
John a gentleman of the 1st order and a pleasure to deal with.
And Margaret, Johns wife served a great cup of coffee.
I enjoyed hearing the history of the Paulawina
I now have to wait paitently for the wood fitter to return from an Exibition in Sydney.
I have waited for 20 odd years so whats a few more days. 
What I do ask while I'm waiting for my timber to resized.
Is it possible to get the plans for the outriggers for the Eureka 155 also might as well go the full hog and give some thought about the mast and sail for same?
Well thats about all for now
Remember to hava good day---If you don't -----stuff it up for someone else too |
25th Oct 2007, 11:34 PM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Quote:
Originally Posted by budwana2001 Hi all, This has to be the greatest week I have had for some time.
SNIP
I have waited for 20 odd years so whats a few more days.
What I do ask while I'm waiting for my timber to resized.
Is it possible to get the plans for the outriggers for the Eureka 155 also might as well go the full hog and give some thought about the mast and sail for same?
Well thats about all for now
Remember to hava good day---If you don't -----stuff it up for someone else too | Start marking and cutting the ply! Then line it up to do buttstraps. Make sure that the panels are laid out as reflections of each other - otherwise you can end up with a buttstrap on the inside on one side and on the outside of the boat on the other.
NOT A GOOD LOOK!!!!
Best wishes
Michael |
27th Oct 2007, 08:58 AM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fraser Coast
Posts: 134
| |
G'day Mick,
I have studied your paddle plans and agree completely. They are, indeed, first rate and are second to none that I have seen.
Well done mate. |
27th Oct 2007, 12:26 PM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairymick A lot depends on the quality of finish you are trying to achieve.
If you are aiming at a show piece, use the best stuff you can get. I don't know very much about species and/or their characteristics.
If you are just looking to build a good - serviceable boat that is going to be used and abused, (like my boats), have a look at some of the fingerjointed pine at your local hardware.it is not pretty or elegant but I have used it on two pirogues and it seems to hold up to my abuse pretty well.
If weight is not a problem, I would recommend some seasoned, knot free spotty gum. I have also used this and it lends itself very well to compound bends, but it is heavy and will add significant weight to your boat.
Another alternative is to obtain shorter lengths of quality wood and scarf them together. This also works well and the shorter pieces you need are more easily found. | I agree with the first statement but would like to add some notes about some of the other suggestions.
Show piece - spot on!!!
Fingerjointed pine - we used it on our OZ PDRs and it is fine for when you are using to joint two pieces of plywood at right angles or similar angles _| . The ply will brace the fingerjoint and the pine will hold the ply. Perfect situation. But where the timber is only contacting the ply along one edge - gunwales, inwales, bottom skid deckbeams etc the fingerjoint has very little strength. One good bump from the right direction and it will break. The same problems when using fingerjointed ply to join ply at a more obtuse angle _/ . If the angle is flat the fingerjoint will have to deal with significant tensile loads and may fracture at the joint.
Houses and furniture are designed to be stiff but not strong. You can tear a chair apart with your bare hands. Try doing that to any component of a boat! That's why you don't see normal woodworking joints on boats - maybe dovetails are still useful for drawers and a loose tenon might be used for a mast step and deckbeams terminate in a kinda half dovetail but are fastened into the marginboard or similar as well in trad construction, or, the deck holds the deckbeam and sheerclamp together in glued construction - but all landlubberly joins are designed for stiffness and are not particularly for strength. All the ply to ply joins are composite (fillet or glass tape) in the Eureka so there is no opportunity to use fingerjointed pine.
Mick does but a caveat on the use of heavier timbers - and provides good choice too - but weight is an interesting devil. And from here this writing is talking generally - Mick is exactly right in what he says. The tendency when building a boat is to add a bit more here and bit there ... thinking it doesn't matter too much. A heavy Eureka canoe is just as silly (and useless) as a lightweight prawn trawler. If the materials are chosen in a consistent way and no more is added than specified (avoid the temptation to stick unused epoxy in the boat - the right place is in the rubbish) then you end up hitting the target weight. But by second guessing the designer and thinking "this will be stronger if I make it bigger" then you end up with something that won't fit the designed purpose any more - assuming the designer has some experience in getting things right of course!
Mick said more or less the same - but in my way I like to use more words!!!!
sorry about that!!!
Michael | | |
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