Thread: Eureka in Germany.

Yes, that's the way!

Michael

I got around to doing the micro filleting today. It was a lot easier than I thought it would be although it takes quite a long time. Having not done anything like this before allways makes it interesting.
I tried piping the mix out of a plastic bag first but found it easier just to scoop a bit out of the tin and work it flat with the filleting stick. Quite enjoyable work.

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I'm about to finish the fillets on the inside and hopefully glass the outside in the next couple of days. In Miks plans it says to fill the V's on the out side joins with a thickened mix, let dry and sand back. Is there any reason I can't fill the joins and lay the glass mat over while they are still wet and glass the outside all in one go.

Thanks. Kev.

Howdy Kev,

I have done both at the same time. But the problem is that the filler tends to move around a fair bit so you end up with flat spots across the join rather than a nice radius.

MIK

Yeah. Thanks Mik. I don't think it's such a good idea. After having a look at some of the other builds I think I'll leave glassing the outside until the gunwales are on and that way I can epoxy right to them whilst doing the glassing. I noticed Midge finished his bulkheads and decks before he did his glassing. I don't like going a different direction to the plans but it seems better than trying to epoxy close to the gunwales while they are there only temporarily. Any epoxy running down could make life difficult.

Kev.

I'm all for eliminating as much glass as possible.

Don't let anyone get away with statements that "it doesn't add much weight".

Basically you are up against two things with glass.

1/ the glass is very much more dense than timber.

2/ perception of weight is not a neat curve where 10% feels like 10% and 20% feels like 20%.

A normal Gaboon canoe is around 45lbs, though can be as light as 34.

Not too difficult for one person to cart around at all. Up to about 60 lbs most can manage ok. But somewhere a bit higher than 60 through to the normal fibreglass canoe weights of 90-100lbs it all becomes so much that lifting is a struggle ...

... and a chore. The boat isn't fun any more.

So to reduce weight right through the building process is important. II know we've talked about this already and you are thinking about it for the next boat ... but other people are reading here.

Using glass cloth is the single fastest way to add weight. So I always recommend adding
1/ the lightest weight of glass possible. We have found that 2oz (70gsm) is enough for most sizes of boat we are interested in here.
2/ covering the minimum area of the boat with glass. The questions are

• what are the main areas of vulnerability
• how can I reduce the building process now I have decided to glass.

So the bottom really is the main area of vulnerability as it will have the whole weight of the crew aboard bearing directly on whatever rock or steel post (it has happened .. star dropper ... leaving a tiny white spot in the glass despite the boat being hung up on it for several minutes). Whether it is needed anywhere else is perhaps a moot point.

If it was ONLY to protect the boat I would do the bottom only. However ...

... theres a lot of glass taping on the outside of the boat that can be eliminated by glassing across the bottom, the bilge panels and then onto the topside panels.

BUT within the framework of reducing weight you probably don't need to do right up to the gunwales. Just as you go an inch onto the topside panel to make the outside of the joint structural. And then compared to smoothing down the edges of 4 glass tapes - that's 8 edges the length of the boat ... you only have one to do. AND it is is in such a light glass it is easy to smooth down that edge anyway.

But be aware that heavier glass might mean that it would have been cheaper and lighter just to select a slightly thicker ply in the first place. You see lots of building mistakes like this on the net where in the search for light weight people cut the ply or timber strip thickness and don't change the glass and don't realise they are getting rid of the lightest component (the timber) and not changing the heaviest (the glass and the resin) - t here is a fair bit of this strange thinking on the net. The lightest solution is to reduce the glass weight. Or if you truly need more strength then go for thicker ply and keep the glass light.

Remember ... this is just an argument. There is no right or wrong way.

Just ways with different results.

Best wishes
Michael

I'm definitely going for the glassing to just above the bilge/top panel join, because I've already bought the mat.

When I first looked at the Eureka I remember someone writing "it is a thing of beauty", refering to a certain Eureka build. At the time I remember thinking, don't get too carried away guys it's only a canoe in the building. I take that back. Yesterday I finished the fillets inside the hull and the glass tape in the tanks and then this morning flipped (well turned) the hull over to fill the joins. A "thing of beauty" appeared. Especially the curve in the bilge panels towards the stems and the overall form of the design. It's a really beautiful thing to look at.

My neighbours are becoming more and more interested in the whole building project as it develops (visiting more frequently). One neighbour who is a welder/engineer is totally fascinated with the construction. Not only the stitch and glue but the resulting form it creates. As you can imagine there's not a lot of use for boats in the Black Forest.
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I was having a beer with my neighbour seeing as we're having our first real warm day (30°c) and bragging about my boat building expertise when suddenly there was a loud thump from the direction of the canoe. One of the scarfs let go but just to be cosistent, no more than five minutes later a second went out in sympathy. Now I just hope I left enough lenght to cut sand and rejoin again.

The one thing I can think of is that I used too much clamping pressure. I mixed my epoxy and first painted the joins with neat epoxy and then made up my glue mix (maybe that wasn't thick enough) and then coated both sides of the joins and clamped them together with two spring clamps on each joint.

If anyone has any advice it will greatly be appreciated.

Maybe I'll just have another beer.

Cheers Kev.

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OK. Now the third has let go and I'm waiting patiently for No4 to do the same.

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The photo with the light coming through the door are fantastic.

Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

The photo with the light coming through the door are fantastic.

Michael

No. That wasn't what I was thinking about at the time.

That's really strange. How long had the epoxy been curing for? I wonder if it wasn't fully cured or something? Might be too much clamping pressure but if that were the main problem I'd expect it to fail when it got knocked or something. Just letting go randomly like that seems to point towards something causing the epoxy to soften - maybe the heat? But 30 degrees shouldn't be near hot enough to cause problems like that. How does the epoxy leftover in the pot feel?

Originally Posted by Andykane

How does the epoxy leftover in the pot feel?

^^^

If it's solid, maybe not enough epoxy? Maybe it sopped into the wood and didn't leave enough behind.

The scarfs were glued over two weeks ago and the left over epoxy was hard the next day. I coated the join faces first with neat epoxy and then mixed my glue and then coated the joins and clamped them. After reading back through some of the posts here I think that the spring clamps I used might have had too much clamping pressure and squeezed out too much epoxy. I think it was Par that said the you only need enough pressure to bring the two together. The other thing is that my glue mix might not have been thick enough.

It was definitely strange the first two breaking within five minutes of each other. The third broke about an hour later. The first two were not clean breaks, you can see in one of the photo's that they broke about half way. The third one broke clean through straight along the join. There's still one more join that hasn't broken but I'm thinking of taking apart as I don't trust it.

Kev.