Thread: Florida Panhandle GIS Yawl

That kit looks SWEET!!! Almost takes all the sport out of boatbuilding. Things like; Parts not fitting, wrecking a hundred dollar sheet of plywood for a cutting error, mismatched sides, putting the buttstraps on the wrong side, having the crappy side of the ply on the side you see the most....Look at all you will be missing!

Rick.

Always great to see someone starting a new project Roddy!

The kit looks great, don't worry about missing out on anything, you still have a million chances to cut things wrong. (the beauty of epoxy is you can fix pretty much any messup along the way) You'll love the process, and when you are done, you'll love the boat.

Take lots of pictures, and ask many questions, all of us armchair experts in the northern hemisphere (speaking for myself) are sad to have put our boats away for the cold season, so maybe we can live vicariously through your build.

Welcome aboard,
-Al

Congrats roddy, welcome to the madness, as some here are apt to say...

You'll enjoy the build and the subsequent boat, the Yawl is a fantastic addition to an already awesome boat, big thanks to John Goodman, Clint, and Mik for that. I've seen Clint's workmanship up close and personal-- to say he is quickly building a reputation for precision is an understatement-- seriously. A good decision.

Enjoy!

It's amazing. When I look at that kit all laid out like that I can just imagine all the pieces folding up like a box and there is suddenly a GIS in my head

A nice kit and quality poxy is a great start. Well done for taking the plunge so we can all fixate on another build.

Looking forward to see the progress seeing as how I have already had to put all my sailboats away for the winter. Only 5 more months until I can fall in the drink and not freeze to death!
Rick

Thanks for the kick off notes. You all have been my inspiration to finely get this project under way.

I made my first cuts tonight and I'm glad to report that I'm the only person that will ever see my first real experience with epoxy. I don't recall one previous post or picture that remotely resembles my centerboard glue up mess. Thank goodness for a grinder and handful of 80 grit disks.

Roddy

Hi Roddy, and welcome!!!

Using the right amount of epoxy takes a little bit of time to get used to. Grinding can solve any problem where there is too much and epoxy can bridge any unintended gap.

The main things with the epoxy are to follow the plan instructions and read the appendices.

Sorry if I labour this a bit by explaining too much. I know you will know some of it, but just to pin down potential problems ...

Dry Run

Cut out all the bits and dry assemble them with the drywall/plasterboard screws. Take them apart again. This means you have all the steps for assembly in your head and start to see the order that things have to happen in.

Also lay them out so the assembly sequence is obvious (to you!) and it is clear where the epoxy does and doesn't go

Don't bite off too much. With the centrecase you build the ply and spacers in one step and then after add the outside framing. Or you can add the outside framing to the ply, let that cure, then glue the sides and spacers together.

It is possible to do everything at once, but leave that until you have more experienced (I still tend to stage things out so it doesn't get complicated).

Gluing

You have heaps of time to get the bits together if you don't let the epoxy sit in the tin or container and cook itself. The aim is to follow the method below. step by step and you won't run into any problems. The dry run is essential until you have the boat mostly built and you start getting a feeling for what you will get away with.

Resin and hardener get mixed first.

Then add the powder - the volume goes up quite quickly at this point - it is often better to start with smaller amounts of resin and hardener like a quarter of a tin can. Rather than try to thicken up a bigger batch with a heap of powder and find you mixed too much.

Mix up the epoxy resin and hardener. to something like halfway between honey and peanut butter.

Then use the plastic bag method (appendices) to roughly pipe all the glue out on the glue surfaces. Don't spread it neatly just put a bead on the surfaces.

Because it is out on the surface the heat it develops can dissipate and you get heaps of working time.

Then spread out the epoxy using a glue stick or ply scrap. Roughly 8" by 1/2 to 3/4".

Now you can reassemble. Only use enough pressure for the pieces to just touch and excess glue come squeezing out.

Leave the part for about 15 minutes (the wood will absorb some of the epoxy) then clean up with another glue stick sharpened to a chisel like point. Much better than a putty knife!

Coating
The most important things with coating are

1/ grasp the wet on wet principle (plan appendices)

2/ use a roller for most of your coating application (though a squeegee can be good for the first coat only on big flat surfaces). Brushes are just awful because they waste huge amounts of epoxy that has to be sanded off later. The rollers should be the right ones for epoxy application - everything else will put too much epoxy on. Also there is the neat trick of holding the roller so it won't turn and sliding the roller over the surface you rolled a moment ago. It will smooth it out big time.

3/ for places where you need a brush cut off the bristles so that the remaining ones are about an inch ((25mm) long. This makes the brush stiffer so you can control how much epoxy goes on by actually pushing it around.

These are the things that most people have trouble with. As you build up experience you can start to combine coating and gluing processes to speed up the work - but you will know when you have the control and understanding to do that.

A lot of it is preparation and the dry run. Also you can dry assemble and put masking tape on the ply just adjacent to the wood you are going to glue on. Means no mess on the ply at all.

Or precoat the ply with three coats epoxy and then sand it so it is fully sealed before assembly. I would recommend this for anything of the ply parts that will end up inside the boat. Saves heaps and heaps of time later.

That's just a quick run through. In the end it becomes very much like second nature. I do try to use the dry assembly method even now after years of building boats.

Best wishes.
MIK

Thanks Mik. You won't believe how many times I've read over both your PDR and GIS plans. Way to many times and I still panicked when my mix started to set up. After once again reading over your detailed instructions I was able to glue up my rudder with no problems. I want to also thank Christophe for his PM with his helpful epoxy suggestions. Thanks for taking the time to get me on track.

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Hi Roddy, and welcome!!!


Dry Run

Cut out all the bits and dry assemble them with the drywall/plasterboard screws. Take them apart again. This means you have all the steps for assembly in your head and start to see the order that things have to happen in.

Also lay them out so the assembly sequence is obvious (to you!) and it is clear where the epoxy does and doesn't go


Gluing


Resin and hardener get mixed first.

Then add the powder - the volume goes up quite quickly at this point - it is often better to start with smaller amounts of resin and hardener like a quarter of a tin can. Rather than try to thicken up a bigger batch with a heap of powder and find you mixed too much.

Mix up the epoxy resin and hardener. to something like halfway between honey and peanut butter.

Then use the plastic bag method (appendices) to roughly pipe all the glue out on the glue surfaces. Don't spread it neatly just put a bead on the surfaces.



Coating
The most important things with coating are

1/ grasp the wet on wet principle (plan appendices)

2/ use a roller for most of your coating application (though a squeegee can be good for the first coat only on big flat surfaces). Brushes are just awful because they waste huge amounts of epoxy that has to be sanded off later. The rollers should be the right ones for epoxy application - everything else will put too much epoxy on. Also there is the neat trick of holding the roller so it won't turn and sliding the roller over the surface you rolled a moment ago. It will smooth it out big time.


That's just a quick run through. In the end it becomes very much like second nature. I do try to use the dry assembly method even now after years of building boats.

Best wishes.
MIK

\

Just want to reinforce these points by MIK. The dry fitting is something I also do after (not as many years as MIK) of boatbuilding. You will never regret dry fitting, but you may well regret NOT doing it. That is my philosophy.

RE: Glues. System 3 makes a bunch of glues that I like a lot and use, the silver tip series they call it, Gel-magic for gluing, EZ fillet for filleting, Quick Fair for puttying, and the Laminating Resin for coating. The 1st 3 I mention are prethickened so there are no powders to mess with, and the Laminating Resin they sell is just right for coating and glassing so there won't be a need to add fillers to this one.

The other nice think is that you don't need to wet out end grain with Gel Magic but you are supposed to let it 'prime' the surface for 10 minutes.

West Sys shows a trick in their manual where you use a slice of a foam roller to tip the epoxy smooth after rolling. You can use a small pair of vice grips or a custom made holder to hang on to the roller cover piece while you tip. The roller cover won't fall apart like foam brushes will when tipping. I use Red Tree's 'Fooler' brush to tip and acetone to clean them...I hate throwing away all those brushes and the chmicals in the epoxy break the foam brush down quickly rendering them useless after 15 minutes of rolling and tipping epoxy. Note in the picture with the kayak, they did not tip out the epoxy after rolling it on and it shows in the texture of the finish. This will take too long to sand. Always tip. That is my 'tip'.

This is all good advice.

Also check out YouTube as well for some great "howtos". Search on "West System" and "epoxy". Also, MIK has some good stuff on his website.

FAQ - Boat Building and Repair Methods - Plywood Epoxy Fibreglass Cedar Strip - Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans

Howdy,

Great stuff Clint.

Generally I don't worry about something separate (a piece of roller and vicegrips) for tipping off the rolled surface. You can just hold the roller so it doesn't roll in your (gloved) hand.

And slide that over the surface with light pressure. If you go too fast it will start bumping up and down so just keep the speed down.

Best wishes
Michael

I have looked everywhere and can't seem to find a dimension for the trailing edge of the foils. The plans indicate the trailing edge finishes to a narrow flat edge. My rudder is 3 mm and the centerboard is 5 mm. Am I in the ball park, cut to much or not enough?

Thanks
Rod

Originally Posted by roddyhd1

I have looked everywhere and can't seem to find a dimension for the trailing edge of the foils. The plans indicate the trailing edge finishes to a narrow flat edge. My rudder is 3 mm and the centerboard is 5 mm. Am I in the ball park, cut to much or not enough?

Thanks
Rod

Hi Rod, yes you are in the ballpark. I just measured my rudder...3mm so same as yours. My daggerboard is 4mm.

I hope this helps.

Here is a picture of my leading and trailing edges after shaping. Your measurements seem good.

JDG