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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    New Jersey, USA
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    767

    Default Malus Pinus Radiata

    My other wood butchery project yesterday was to cut the lumber for the mast. A discussion in BobWes’s thread revolved around the use of Radiata Pine for the Goat’s spars. Long story short, it was agreed that the mast’s robust design could compensate for the material’s properties, provided the Radiata was clear and tight. What wasn’t mentioned was that the use of Radiata will help the flows of funds from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere...



    Thankfully, the dimensions of the mast fit nicely within the stock board widths; only small amount of trimming is needed.



    You’ll note in the photo above that I selected boards cut from the edges of the log as opposed to a center cut. I feel this will match the stresses of the mast to the tree’s original stresses. If these board try to warp, they will bow the mast’s diameter, but may still remain straight from top to bottom.

    A bigger challenge was finding the right combinations to equal a 16-foot length, since the 1-by lumber comes in a maximum of 10 feet. Plus, it’s not particularly cheap, so I want to minimize waste. Here you’ll see a combination of 10- and 8-foot lengths of 1x4 and 1x3s respectively that will form the wide and narrow staves.



    I would rather stagger the joints even more than shown here, but to do so would require adding more joints elsewhere. They say that a well executed epoxy joint is stronger than the surrounding wood...

    The biggest challenge of all was/is getting the thickness of the boards down to spec. The “school solution” is to use (or pay someone to use) a planer or thicknesser (right Bob?). I actually considered buying one, but they are over $200 new, I can’t find any on Craigslist locally, and I really don’t see needing one in the future. A router table on the other hand... So I have a new router table which will serve this project--and the family in general--very well.

    My silly thought was to simply run the stock over a wide flat bit in several passes. I picked up a 3/4” bit and proceeded to work from the edges inward. And that’s when it hit me... Um, what would I do to support the plank when the last of the material is being removed? I don’t have jig or a shim to hold the work piece up at exactly the right height (something like 5.5mm) for the final pass. So the solution was to not make that final pass.



    I removed as much material as I could without having the work piece collapse onto the router bit. Next, I will use a plane, or a saw, or a beaver looking for work, to trim off these remaining “rails” and leave me with the proper dimensions.

    In truth, I could have--and possibly should have--altered the plan’s dimensions to accommodate the 3/4” boards and still retain the exterior dimensions of the finished mast. Or I could have slapped the boards together to create a mast of larger width and then alter the rest of the build to accommodate the custom sized mast. And I did consider both courses of action. But a big part of the pleasure I get from projects like this is the problem solving, even if the problem is self-induced (I got myself into it, I’ll get myself out of it!).

    So that’s where I’m at as of this writing. I need to cut scarf joint angles in all these boards (including the ones from the previous post, Yard Work) to get the correct lengths. Then they must all be assembled into their raw spar form. Then they will have be shaped. Then... the list goes on...

    L8tr!
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Savannah GA USA
    Posts
    583

    Default

    There is a good bit of extra length to my yard compared to the head of the sail. I'd guess I have 9 or 10 inches of wood extending beyond the sail top and bottom. Giving up 3 inches at each end doesn't sound like a serious problem IMO. Unless I am missing the point the 3 missing inches will make it a little bit more difficult to pull the sail taut since the angle of pull will be a little less direct. Other than that you shouldn't have a problem.

    Are you left handed? I'm curious because all the table saws I have used in various shops have the fence to the right of the blade. The lefties seemed to be OK with that arrangement but I guess they might have preferred to have the fence to the left of the blade as yours seems to be.
    The "Cosmos Mariner,"My Goat Island Skiff
    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/

    Starting the Simmons Sea Skiff 18
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default

    Oh yeah, I guess I could just look at plans and compare the dimensions of the yard and the sail's head. Duh.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default

    Funny about the fence. I've never really thought of that. I'm a righty and I do occasionally set the fence to the right of the blade. But my natural default us how you see it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,106

    Default

    Probably worth getting the sail and doing some test stretching to see the likely normal range. The ends of any of the spars can be lopped to save weight.

    I don't think there is much that can come off the mast though!

    MIK

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    68
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Dave - you are making good progress!

    Made it to Virginia this afternoon. Man, it is hot and muggy compared to what I left in Central Michigan yesterday. It is good to be visiting and helping a friend but I can't help thinking of the boat projects waiting for me...

    Speaking of boat projects... My sister and I tested her sewing machine with the sailcloth and thread. After experimenting with tension and stitch width and getting those set on a scrap of ripstop nylon, we decided to see how the machine handled the sailcloth. It went quite well and both of us are excited about assembling the sail. (my sister then admitted to some earlier trepidation about her machine being able to handle the project but after yesterday's trials she is excited about the project)
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobWes View Post
    Dave - you are making good progress!

    Made it to Virginia this afternoon. Man, it is hot and muggy compared to what I left in Central Michigan yesterday. It is good to be visiting and helping a friend but I can't help thinking of the boat projects waiting for me...

    Speaking of boat projects... My sister and I tested her sewing machine with the sailcloth and thread. After experimenting with tension and stitch width and getting those set on a scrap of ripstop nylon, we decided to see how the machine handled the sailcloth. It went quite well and both of us are excited about assembling the sail. (my sister then admitted to some earlier trepidation about her machine being able to handle the project but after yesterday's trials she is excited about the project)
    If you started your experiments with a fresh needle, listen to the sound that the needle makes while it goes thru the cloth. The needle will start a popping sounds as it dulls. As it dulls it will have a tendency to skip a stitch on the bottom bobbin side.

    Don't be afraid to change out the needle more often that when using it on clothing fabric. I went thru 12 needles while sewing my GIS sail and only 2 I broke.

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    68
    Posts
    908

    Default

    John, Thanks for the tip re the needles. I'll be sure to share that with my sister so we will both be aware of the need to change needles more frequently.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default How NOT to scarf a joint

    Well, things did not go as smoothly as I had projected in my previous post. I planed the mast staves for their scarf joints. For some reason, I did each half of the joint separately, rather than stacking the two halves to plane them together. The mating was questionable. That is to say, a reasonable person might have questioned how well the halves mated, but I chose not to question myself. I then proceeded to employ the ďgravity clampĒ method wherein one places a flat heavy object on the joint as it rests on a flat surface. I have bricks and a garage floor... what could go wrong?



    Well, gravity can decide not to pull very strongly on my bricks for one thing. Basically all the joints on the pine staves were wack. Thatís not a nautical term, thatís a physics term. A couple were so-so, which--in the big picture of things--is wack. Here are just a couple examples of what wack looks like:





    To make a long story short, I re-did all six scarfs today and theyíre clamped up (with clamps this time) to cure overnight.

    THEN Iíll be able to taper, assemble, round, etc. like I said in the last post...



    To make a long story long, click on my Lugsíl Chronicles link.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    68
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Whew... Nice recovery, Dave!
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Florida USA
    Posts
    337

    Default

    Great to see another Goat in the making! Boy can I relate to making parts over . I highly recommend making up a scarfing jig for the table saw. The jig is real simple and the scarfs turn out perfect. Best part is that a screwed up scarf takes minutes to redo. First couple of pics here show how my scarfing jig looks.
    Simon
    My building and messing about blog:
    http://planingaround.blogspot.com/
    The folks I sail with:
    West Coast Trailer Sailing Squadron

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
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    Default

    Excellent Simon, thank you. I don't think I've been as far back as 2009 in your blog!

    I'm know I have more scarfs in my future: chinelogs, gunwales, inwales. I'm just too cheap to find and pay for that perfect 16+ foot board... multiple times.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Florida USA
    Posts
    337

    Default

    I don't think I've been as far back as 2009 in your blog!
    Well it's been a long a torturous path. Hope your build takes much less time.

    BTW You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, on the forum, but where in NJ are you? I worked in Red Bank for 4 years, lived in Jersey City and then Sea Bright. Then like many Newjerseyites I moved to FL
    Simon
    My building and messing about blog:
    http://planingaround.blogspot.com/
    The folks I sail with:
    West Coast Trailer Sailing Squadron

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
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    Default

    So last night I did some measuring of my raw blanks for yard and boom. I'll have to edit this post later with pics and exact numbers, but here's what I came up with:

    Yard: 3.6m x 40mm square straight Doug Fir (two laminated halves), ~6.8lbs, 32mm bend under 10kg load at midpoint.

    Boom: 3.6m x 40mm square straight Doug Fir (two laminated halves), ~8.8 lbs, 25mm bend under 10kg load at midpoint.

    I went to the StorerWiki to compare, but that's still a work in progress. Thankfully, SimonLew just posted relevant data:

    I built a hollow (8mm wall) approx 52mm x 36mm and tapered slightly, douglass fir yard that deflects 20mm with a 10kg load and 37mm with 16kg but the sucker weighs 2.8kg (6lb 2oz). That's what I ended up using as a boom cause the sailmaker thought it was a bit too stiff.
    So my take aways are: 1) Simon thinks 6+ lbs is heavy for a yard? or heavier than expected for a hollow spar? 2) Simon's sailmaker wanted more flex than 20mm. Boy I've got THAT.

    I guess what I'm looking for is how to relate this 10kg measurement to the amount of head round I've got in semi finished form. I have 50mm of round to play with. I also expect that under brutal downhaul conditons, I'll be apply more force than the 10kg metric. I have left my sail unfinished specifically for this reason. I'm also at a decision point with the spars. If needed, I can laminate more lumber, or I can proceed with tapering and rounding which will certaily increase the amount of flex over the current raw form.

    All thoughts are welcome. I'll be spending the weekend cleeaning epoxy drips and taking care of the house's yard.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default

    And I see from Bruce's build (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/b...ml#post1086720) that he was happy with 47mm of flex from 2.2kg (4.8lbs) of Radiata Pine. At least he was in December of 2009. I'm going back through Bruce's blog for in-use feedback...

    Right. Bruce ended up with an aluminum yard, and also struggled with lee helm issues. It's all coming back to me now...
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

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