Thread: GIS Build in New Jersey, USA
- 29th Jul 2011, 12:17 PM #121
John, it looks like you have the same hardware that I do. So you'll be able to answer a question that's been bothering me.
I see that your gudgeons are set up, from top to bottom, rudder-transom-rudder-transom. I was worried that doing it that way would lead to the rudder riding up, with the tiller grinding against the top of the hole through the transom. So I was going to set mine up rudder-transom-transom-rudder. Am I over-thinking this? Do you find that the rudder rides up, or does it stay in place? Thx.
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- 29th Jul 2011, 03:33 PM #122Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
I set mine up based on gravity. The rudder gudgeons rest on top of the transom gudgeons.
I have never seen my rudder ride up on the pin. That might be in part to where I have the lower safety pin located. The lower ring-ding does not allow for the housing to ride up.
I would not do it the opposite way, If you loose the bottom safety ring-ding the rudder housing could fall of, plus the ring-ding will take all the load of the housing. With the way mine is arranged the pin will never fall out since gravity will hold the pin in. Only if the lower ring-ding goes missing and I capzise could i loose the rudder housing.
Since my rudder housing stays on the boat while trailering I like the idea of the housing resting on top of the transom gudgeons.
- 29th Jul 2011, 09:52 PM #123
I didn't explain myself clearly. In my vision, one pair of gudgeons would be as you have them, with the rudder gudgeon on top, and one pair would be reversed. This is a simplified version of the setup on the J24. The rudder stock would not be able to move up or down unless the pin is removed.
I understand your point about the weight of the rudder when the boat is out of the water. But my experience in small boats with wooden rudders is that the rudder wants to float, so the pressure is upward when the boat is IN the water. That's why you usually have to deal with hooks and clips and things to keep the rudder down. I was thinking that having one set of gudgeons "embrace" the other would solve both problems.
But I've never used a setup like MIK's. I can see that the rudder stock might be heavy enough to overcome the rudder's buoyancy and the whole issue may be moot. Maybe this setup just doesn't ride up. Your experience would indicate that this is true. So thanks for the word. That's what I was looking for.
Dave, sorry to pollute your thread here. I'll go back to my own thread now.
- 29th Jul 2011, 11:30 PM #124
FWIW, I tend to agree with you Paul. I would think the up and down motion of the rudder case should be controlled by the hardware itself as opposed to the safety/security pins/rings etc. But... there is much to be said for actual GIS experience under challenging (exciting!) conditions versus the theortical musings of wannabe Goaters.
I did indeed cut my transon to accomodate lifting pintles up out of the gudgeons. I took my cue from Joost's GISWerk, a beautiful example of the class (breed?). That means I'm likely to continue with pintles once they come off backorder. Pintles put me squarely in contradiction with what I stated above; the only thing keeping them from rising upward is a safety stop. (Oh yeah, and--as John so astutely observed--the whole gravity thing.)
I should be sailing...
- 30th Jul 2011, 07:13 AM #125Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Tilburg, the Netherlands
- 31st Jul 2011, 12:14 PM #126
This page has no WOOD!
Time to add wood to this page...
I spent the entire day out in my yard because the weather was sublime. I ripped and chopped and sanded wood like a beaver (do they sand wood?).
Lots more pics on my blog. Plus I poke a little fun at MIK's detailed instructions: "Make Stem."
- 31st Jul 2011, 01:14 PM #127
Ha! That brought a smile to my face.
Yes, Mik's "Make stem" caused me to scratch my head - a lot. I struggled with that apparently cryptic instruction. But, once one gets it, that simple directive and the drawing are really all one needs to make the stem. Clearly, you got it!
- 31st Jul 2011, 02:26 PM #128
It must be oldtimer's setting in... earlier in the week I posted about using "pintles and gudgeons" to mount the rudder on the transom. Something about that post didn't seem right but I couldn't figure out why...
Tonight it hit me... I didn't use pintles at all!
I used these on the rudder box:
And these on the transom:
The rudder box gudgeons bracket the transom gudgeons and are held together with 1/4" shoulder bolts (one bolt for each pair of gudgeons) with Nylok nuts. Everything linges up and a 1/4" rod does fit but as I noted, I do not have a drill press to drill holes in a rod, or a vice to bend a rod.
Sorry for misstating how my rudder is rigged.
does fit wo
- 31st Jul 2011, 03:13 PM #129
Thanks, Bob. I can see how your gudgeons handle the problem I was thinking about, of preventing the rudder from floating up.
I'm still having a hard time getting used to this rudder design. 40+ years of sailing with rudders like you see on a 420 prejudice me completely. I keep forgetting that I can leave the tiller and rudder housing attached permanently, pulling just the blade when I beach the boat, and that the entire unit is likely to be quite a bit less buoyant than I'm used to.
Luckily, I'm close to getting real-life experience which will set me straight. I finished shaping my mast today and did a final sanding on the other spars. I will epoxy-coat the spars, rudder box, tiller, and tiller extension tomorrow, if all goes to plan. I might actually be sailing by next weekend.
- 1st Aug 2011, 06:11 AM #130Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- "Old" Hampshire, UK
- 1st Aug 2011, 09:10 AM #131
My favorite of MIK's instructions is on the first page of the "Drawings" section: "4 Simple Steps". No hint on that page that it will take 150 hours or more to get through step 4!
- 1st Aug 2011, 11:02 AM #132
You know, waaaaay back in the early days of the interweb, I wanted to swap out my automatic transmission in my car with a manual since my auto had blown up, so I looked for instructions online, and I found them, in 4 easy steps:
1. Remove Engine from vehicle
2. Remove Automatic Transmission
3. Install Manual Transmission
4. Re-install Engine.
Needless to say I just put in another automatic transmission.
- 2nd Aug 2011, 01:20 AM #133
- 2nd Aug 2011, 01:24 AM #134
Question for the class
GIS veterans please clarify for me the proper length of the dagger board blank before I take saw to wood (measure twice, hit the internet, cut once).
I believe the blank should be 1.4m, but I can see where I might be wrong. Here's a diagram of my confusion. My gut says the answer is A:
- 2nd Aug 2011, 02:06 AM #135Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Florida USA