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  1. #1
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    Jun 2009
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    Default GIS in WoodenBoat Small Boats 2015 !!!

    It finally happened. Years of pooh-poohing the boat and someone finally came to their senses. My issue is in the mail. Will report back.

    https://www.woodenboat.com/small-boats-2015

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  3. #2
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    Apr 2008
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    Connecticut, USA
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    Mine came yesterday. Haven't had a chance to read the article yet. (Yesterday was Kathi's birthday.) Hoping to do so tonight.

  4. #3
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    Aug 2010
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    New Jersey, USA
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    Also reviewed is Jewell, which our very own Clint Chase collaborated on. I haven't found this issue on the stands yet, but I'll certainly pick up a copy when I see one.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NSW, Australia
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    474

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    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    It finally happened. Years of pooh-poohing the boat and someone finally came to their senses. My issue is in the mail. Will report back.

    https://www.woodenboat.com/small-boats-2015
    That magazine usually seems to like three panel boats. They've featured oodles of them over the years. Why would they be pooh-poohing the Goat?
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
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    I think the GIS has been very difficult for them to compartmentalize.

    Most of the three panel boats they have featured have either been traditional types or built like traditional types.

    The no fastenings (that irritated an amazing number of people), lightweight hull that carries all the major loads in the ply, the lack of framing and timberwork has been difficult for many to swallow. There were even negative responses to the idea of coating with epoxy in the early days.

    We've had our moments of fame in Classic Boat, Small Craft Adviser, Watercraft and a couple of others all a long time ago. But Woodenboat has held out. But that is OK -they started with a particular position and defended the ideals of tradition and quality as well as bringing the better of the newer methods to their public too. In the same edition the magazine has an article on the PDRacer - which is just about as opposite the normal WB ethos as it is possible to be.

    At the same time there HAVE been a couple of attempts to do WB articles on the GIS but somehow they fell apart.

    A hint of what the situation was is in this Woodenboat thread.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-the-125-plans

    There is huge support for the Goat now ... but you if you know the forum you can see little attempts to get something less positive up, but they are swamped in the general pleasantness of it all.

    ... but it has taken two decades to get that way

    Should be a good article. Ben who wrote it, contacted me earlier in the year for a bit of rundown and also to know who he could speak to. He likes fast modern boats as well as older ones, so it should come out well.

    MIK

  7. #6
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    Jun 2009
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    New Hampshire
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    Additionally, there may have been some hemming and hawing about the daggerboard and the boat's stability, from people who didn't like daggerboards, etc. All somewhat silly. Damn good boat, and she's getting her due!

    Paulie, status?!?

  8. #7
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    Sep 2012
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    NSW, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    I think the GIS has been very difficult for them to compartmentalize.

    Most of the three panel boats they have featured have either been traditional types or built like traditional types.

    The no fastenings (that irritated an amazing number of people), lightweight hull that carries all the major loads in the ply, the lack of framing and timberwork has been difficult for many to swallow.
    I see. So they were upset because the construction made sense. Odd people.


    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Additionally, there may have been some hemming and hawing about the daggerboard and the boat's stability, from people who didn't like daggerboards, etc. All somewhat silly.
    Yup. Daggerboards aren't ideal for shallow waters, but are fine once things are over knee deep. They're also traditional in some American small craft anyway.

    I wonder if the rig upset them too. They seem to be enamoured of boomless spritsails, which to my mind are horrible things that never set properly and are a pig to handle.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  9. #8
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    Jun 2009
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    New Hampshire
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    I can say with 100% certainty that the rig was not an issue. The balanced lug is well loved in the States and by WB. Regardless, enough cynicism! The GIS is in Small Boats, and I am glad. Consistent performance, proven ability, and a growing fleet have by far legitimized the boat more than anything else.

    And daggerboards are just fine for shallow waters. I have done some spectacular shallow water sailing in the GIS and other daggerboard boats for my entire life. It all comes down the operator.

  10. #9
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    Sep 2012
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    NSW, Australia
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    I've done a fair amount of shallow water sailing in boats with dagger boards and with pivoting boards. For the really shallow stuff, pivoting boards do have some advantages.

    A good example is the International Finn, which is an excellent daysailer for light to moderate conditions. You can sail it upwind in surprisingly shallow water, and if the depth changes enough to make the board touch it's no big deal. Just tweak the line slightly. This is particularly handy in light airs when you don't want to disturb the momentum of the boat. You can also do tricks like pulling up the board to bear off quickly without using the rudder, then dropping it again once your new heading is right. This is another thing that can be handy in light airs when you don't have much steerage and don't want extra drag.

    Against that, you have the larger board, larger case, uphaul line, and a tendency to jam sometimes if pulled up on the beach. It's a trade-off, and I can see why any particular person might prefer one or the other.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  11. #10
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    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
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    The article is incredibly positive, ending with "If I were not over-boated already (by some standards), I'd think about adding one to the fleet." Lots of love for the design, the plans, the ease of building, Mik's availability for the builders, etc. Fuller is clear that this is a high-performance boat and might require a tad more athleticism than a heavier design. But he doesn't press that any further than he has to. It's clear that he likes the boat a lot. Couldn't have asked for a better article.

    Fuller told me at SRR that WB had held off in the early years because of worries that the boat was dangerous. Some on the editorial staff were sure it was too light and fragile. If they endorsed it and then someone got killed in one, they'd be held responsible. But 20 years of success in the water finally convinced the doubters that it was a tough, and safe, little boat.

  12. #11
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    Sep 2012
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    You'd think they might have noticed it was sound after, I dunno, ten years. Australian and NZ racing dinghies were always built lighter than the UK and US ones, so we're used to light but strong wooden construction over here. It works very well if it's engineered properly, but I suppose it would be freaky to anyone who was brought up with traditional flat bottom workboats in the US.

    Anyway, good to hear that they're now happy bunnies.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  13. #12
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    Apr 2008
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    Connecticut, USA
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    The end of each day at SRR involves dragging a whole bunch of small sailboats up the beach. It is extremely illuminating. All these boats are in the same size range. But, while the Goats are less then 200lbs fully rigged, many of the plank-on-frame craft (including some owned by WB editors and contributors) are 500lbs or more. "Oh, it's not too heavy" some owner will say, after which 8 grown men will struggle and groan as they haul it out of tidal range. Their sense of "small boat weight" is highly skewed by sawn oak frames and mahogany coaming and lead-weighted centerboards. They really, really don't know what to think about a boat as light as the Goat.

  14. #13
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    Sep 2012
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    First wooden boat I ever owned (well, bought by my parents but anyway) was a Sabot (Australian version). Minimum hull weight under the rules at the time was 50 lbs, and mine was smack on the minimum weight. Was plenty durable too, given reasonable care. So, it was common for kids over here to think that timber boats shouldn't weigh more than about 10 lbs per foot, even without getting particularly techy about it.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  15. #14
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    Sep 2012
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    Oh incidentally, Sabots are funny little boats. When driven hard offwind in a blow, you have to actually hike out over the transom to keep the bow above water. Makes for some interesting racing and keeps the kids on their toes. Gybes at the bottom mark were always fun in a blow.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

  16. #15
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Yes, So many great sailors learned in Sabots.It looks likely that you could put one as originally specified on the water for about $1500. But like everything else, their price has spiralled out of reach as an introductory sailing boat.I really wonder if the higher tech versions out now will train kids to sail any better?Great to know where you came from (sailingwise!)MIK

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