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Thread: GIS Yawl

  1. #136
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    837

    Default

    I'm on the same page as MIK. I got some thoughts from a few boatbuilders here and trusted ones on WBF and will mock up things up with their feedback in mind (pretty much as MIK said). MIK and others in the know...I want to keep the spirit of simplicity here, which is why I am more than happy to stay with a straight tiller and all that, but how extreme can the sheeting angle be on a mizzen. I'd like to sheet it to the corners of the transom, but that would be a very sharp angle. The mizzen is sprit boomed, and if you look at the profile with mizzen, to sheet back to the transom would be questionable. I've never used a mizzen sheeted back to the helmsman at much of an angle. Boomkin or no, is the question. How did it work on the RAID41? I have to do bills now!

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  3. #137
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    960

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    Simplicity is good!

    Why can't you guys mount it on the outside of the transom with a couple of burly J. Michalak-like mast partner/step? If you keep it close to the centerline and keep the mast skinny, a mounting plate for the rudder gudgeons for maybe an extra 1/4", and all the problems (as I see them) are mostly solved, and the integrity of the aft watertight chamber is maintained without a bunch of extra structure and points of potential water-entry and weakness. Just a thought from the amateur.

    Edit: Obviously the transom ply would be backed up by something thicker on the inside for support...

  4. #138
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
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    908

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    Just a thought... Would it be to much to offset the mizzen to the end of the tiller cut-out in the transom?
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  5. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

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    I think you know where I am coming from ... I seldom veto any idea that will result in a workable boat, and there is a place for curved tillers and one of those places might be on this boat.

    However, I often do think it is good for the minds involved to put the opposite case - even though it might not be the best solution. Sometimes you guys do that for me too!

    Best wishes
    Michael

  6. #140
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME USA
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    837

    Default Nice Yawl arrangement

    This is what I am shooting for on the set up,



    offset mizzen, straight tiller
    Mizzen sheeted forward to the top of transom (no boomkin)

    I would like to know about how it worked on the RAID....I think the sprit needs to be set a little steeper for this sheeting back to transom.

    Pretty simple. Clint

    I'll be dry fitting GIS parts today and next week and setting up tank tops and making sure everything goes together smoothly. I think I will take a trip out to say hello to Dana and mock up the mizzen placement a bit.

    Maybe I'll cut some holes and put a mast step and partner right in there before he comes home from work! Shhh don't tell him. It'll be a surprise.

  7. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default Model with mizzen

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Simplicity is good!

    Why can't you guys mount it on the outside of the transom with a couple of burly J. Michalak-like mast partner/step? If you keep it close to the centerline and keep the mast skinny, a mounting plate for the rudder gudgeons for maybe an extra 1/4", and all the problems (as I see them) are mostly solved, and the integrity of the aft watertight chamber is maintained without a bunch of extra structure and points of potential water-entry and weakness. Just a thought from the amateur.

    Edit: Obviously the transom ply would be backed up by something thicker on the inside for support...
    Based on the above comment, I modified the model to illustrate the idea.

    Pro: simple to mount, easier structural mods, air chamber not compromised,
    Con: it messes up that beautiful transom, will add addition structure, adds weight at the very end of the boat

    Question: With sail further aft maybe the new forward mast step can be eliminated since the center of gravity is further back?

  8. #142
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Florida USA
    Posts
    337

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    Why not put it up against the transom but on the inside? This preserves the beauty of the transom from outside and is structurally simpler. The tiller angle should be the same or greater as with the mast mounted on the outside of the transom.
    Simon
    My building and messing about blog:
    http://planingaround.blogspot.com/
    The folks I sail with:
    West Coast Trailer Sailing Squadron

  9. #143
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    I have to say the mizzen on the outside does not sound nearly as bad as I thought it would, now that I see pics. But, the truth is, the mizzen is as far aft on the inside as possible and there will be no problems getting the comfortable tiller swing we want, 45 degrees. John, measure the distance from the transom to the center of the penciled mizzen position, the one you drew that allows 45 degree swing. If that is about 3" (and your scale is correct on the model) then we are in business. We can keep the mizzen inside and still have the nice transom and not change the CE of the sail areas that have been worked out.

  10. #144
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    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
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    There may be problems getting the external partner and step strong enough - easier to take the loads in the bottom and seat top.

    But nice bit of lateral thinking - I would have thought it would look terrible too. I will keep it in mind in case I ever need it.

    MIK

  11. #145
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    It would probably require a second mast step anyway, and probably right between the two on top of BHD 1 which would be a pain. Also, the sheeting to the top of transom would be even more difficult. I'm curious what the measurement is...John will chime in soon.

  12. #146
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default inside mizzen location

    Moved the mizzen mast so it is now located on the aft bulkhead. The tip of the mast is tilted aft because the mast follows the rake of the transom.

    This cleans up the transom.
    Should be easier to strengthen.
    May require a drain hole in the transom.

    I am headed to the showed, because I am covered in boat building dust. I will take a few measurements tomorrow night.

  13. #147
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Looks good.

    One thing that we suspect with the RAID41 in the Texas 200 is that it tended to round up because the mizzen could not be reefed. It should have been furled but that was not thought of at the time.

    I suspect that the standard Goat rig could work better in an event that is predominantly a strong wind close to dead downwind event. But the mizzen version might be better in a range of conditions.

    Michael

  14. #148
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default Rig Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Looks good.

    One thing that we suspect with the RAID41 in the Texas 200 is that it tended to round up because the mizzen could not be reefed. It should have been furled but that was not thought of at the time.

    I suspect that the standard Goat rig could work better in an event that is predominantly a strong wind close to dead downwind event. But the mizzen version might be better in a range of conditions.

    Michael
    That is good information to know about the RAID41 and how it handled.

    One of the things I plan to do during the Texas 200 is "trade-out" the rigs during the event. Start with one configuration in the morning, most likely light air, beach the boat for lunch and shift the rig for the stronger afternoon winds. That way both rigs can be "tested" in both light and heavy winds depending on which configuration I start with in the morning.

  15. #149
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME USA
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    This mizzen will have reef points.

  16. #150
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME USA
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    Here is a nice shot of my friend James (same guy who wrote the instructions on using a yawl rig I posted a while back) who is lying head to wind while he strikes the rig.

    He is located in the Pacific NW thus the incredible back drop. Besides the Texas 200, this area is at the very top of my list of boating destinations.

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