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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    It looks like the timber species are being narrowed (for the hull timber) to Spanish Cedar (for the lighter timber) and Honduran Mahogany/Teak for the gunwales/inwales and hardwood applications. These are probably slightly heavier then specified but they are all grown locally in the region and are available.

    Is there any obvious problem with using any of these species?

    I will wait to see how these hull timbers look before I choose what to use for the spar timbers.

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Howdy,

    Teak is bad news. It is very oily and doesn't glue or take epoxy coating well.

    MIK

  4. #18
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    Jul 2012
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    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Howdy,

    Teak is bad news. It is very oily and doesn't glue or take epoxy coating well.

    MIK
    Noted thanks MIK.

    If I am going to use Mahogany for both the gunwales and the gunwale cappings is there any disadvantage in increasing the gunwale width by 10mm from 19mm to 29mm and eliminating the gunwale cappings all together?

  5. #19
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    65
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    YOu can use the lighter cedar timber for the gunwales if you like a colour contrast. It is pretty well protected. Also for the knees.

    It will save some weight but also the contrast might appeal to you. It is a personal thing though!

    MIK

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    414

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    I agree with MIK on this. I used Douglas fir for the gunwales and dark sapele for the gunwale caps. I love the look.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    68
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    Believe me, you will enjoy the boat more if you build it light and you will thank yourself whenever you move it around and also when sailing. A light boat just sails so much better! The Spanish Cedar sounds ideal if readily available. As MIK says, it's a personal thing. I incorporated a lot of lightweight Paulownia in my boat, and it's proved to be a very strong boat, but importantly I can handle it on and off trailers and launch it by myself. If it weighed 10-15 kg more, I would find this difficult on my own. (Paulownia is lightweight and resists splitting) As long as you use a good quality epoxy and your joints are not "dry", your boat will have plenty of strength.

    So my tip is to use dense timbers very sparingly and sensibly.

    Cheers

    Edit: BTW, what are your choices as far as ply is concerned? Can you get decent stuff there?

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    134

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    I have asked a couple of carpenters here to provide me with a price for preparing and providing the hull timbers only, cut to size as much as possible given the lengths they have.

    I got my first price back this week, and not that I am very knowledgable about timber prices, but it was a little eye watering. I went and discussed it with him today and he reduced the eye watering price by around $250. The timber he has looks nice, dry and I think he will provide good knot free timber but the price makes my expensive french plywood that has been shipped all round the world look cheap.

    I'm pretty sure that I am ripe for a fleecing given I am a "rich gringo" that doesn't speak very good spanish. Can anyone give me a ball park cost of what hull timber (cut to size) should cost - are we talking $100, $250, $500 or $1,000? The timber is mostly Spanish Cedar and Caoba (Mahogany) both grown locally and the cheapest decent timber available here.

    I am still waiting on some prices to come in so I am hopeful that there will be some competitive prices.

    Cheers

    Matt

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    134

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Believe me, you will enjoy the boat more if you build it light and you will thank yourself whenever you move it around and also when sailing. A light boat just sails so much better! The Spanish Cedar sounds ideal if readily available. As MIK says, it's a personal thing. I incorporated a lot of lightweight Paulownia in my boat, and it's proved to be a very strong boat, but importantly I can handle it on and off trailers and launch it by myself. If it weighed 10-15 kg more, I would find this difficult on my own. (Paulownia is lightweight and resists splitting) As long as you use a good quality epoxy and your joints are not "dry", your boat will have plenty of strength.

    So my tip is to use dense timbers very sparingly and sensibly.

    Cheers

    Edit: BTW, what are your choices as far as ply is concerned? Can you get decent stuff there?
    Hi Woodeneye

    As per the suggestions I have tried to swap out as much of the heavier timber (mahogany) for the lighter Cedar as possible. I still have the skids, gunwale cappings, gunwale spacers (I thought a little bit of a color difference here would be nice), hardwood rudder and center board staves, partners and the transom spec'd as the heavier mahogany.

    I had a chance to have a look at some Ceder and Mahogany vanished samples today and the color difference between the two is pretty small (the mahogany is a little darker) so now I am inclined to also swap out the mahogany of the gunwale spacers for the lighter cedar.

    Is there any need to have the transom in the harder timber or can it also be made from the lighter cedar?

    I ended up buying Joubert okoume marine plywood from Florida. The shipping/importation cost to Guatemala is about $150 (and around 4-6 weeks shipping time) for the 6 sheets - not cheap but not prohibitive. Without spending a lot of time and cost looking for marine plywood in the country (which I don't see existing in good quality, the readily available local suff is pretty cheap and ordinary), I decided to just go ahead an buy what everyone else has had success using. It should arrive (along with the System 3 epoxy, tape etc) next week. While probably a small risk I have my fingers crossed that it arrives undamaged.

    Cheers

    Matt

  10. #24
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    It seems to me that you have all the timber you need to make a really nice boat. Joubert ply is the best you can get so this will be the best money you have spent. Good timber is not cheap, but is money well spent on a nice looking boat like the GIS.

    If you are intending to use a motor on the transom then you will need to use the harder wood there. If not, I don't see any reason not to use the Spanish Cedar, although I'd be inclined to add a cap of hardwood to the curved top as this seems to take some knocks.

    For the foils, use the light Spanish Cedar. Maybe use hardwood for the leading and trailing edge staves. The daggerboard trailing edge will usually incur damage if you hit the bottom because it kicks back and hits the back edge of the casing. But whether you use hard wood or softwood on this edge is a moot point because the edge is very fine and even when glassed will be damaged anyway by such a hit.

    I found that using a lightweight timber for the skids with a 2mm metal capping (aluminium) was also a good choice as it provides great protection when handling the boat on concrete ramps or surfaces.

  11. #25
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    Jul 2005
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    Ditto on the foil staves. Light light. The leading edge is rarely damaged.

    Another way to do skids is low density timber with a thin layer of hardwood. Maybe 5mm. But it's maybe a bit fussy.

    Best wishes
    Michael

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    134

    Default Small steps

    There have been some small steps taken over the last couple of days and I'm almost in the position replace my stock phrase of "I'm planning on building a boat' with "I'm building a boat".

    It's taken just under 2 months from payment for the plywood and epoxy (etc) to arrive here at the house. After an all day trip to pick them from the Capital yesterday, they spend the night in the local marina and came out of a private boat this morning. Finally they were carried the 45 vertical meters (150 feet) from the lake up to the house. That final 45 meters got the blood flowing!

    It mostly all arrived and in good order. A roller cage and some replacement foam rollers went missing in transit and the Jorbet plywood has some water damage on one corner - but I feared worse so I'm feeling lucky. The water damage is worse on the outer two sheets so I'm hoping I can largely work around it or hide it. I haven't had a good look at all the sheets yet so there could be some more surprises.


    https://picasaweb.google.com/1153149...23647895098770


    https://picasaweb.google.com/1153149...23342933326978


    https://picasaweb.google.com/1153149...23533841029650

    I am still trying to arrange the purchase of the hull timbers. I finally got a sensible quote yesterday (1/3 of the price of the first one) but it came with the condition that he could only supply mahogany (and not any cedar) as his supplier won't have any dry cedar for another month. I had one of my friends (who speaks much better Spanish then I do) call him today and he is going to try some other suppliers. Fingers crossed!

    I picked up a 5m section of square metal "tubing" to use as a fairing batten this morning so I can start marking out and cutting out the plywood. I'm hoping to get started later this week.

  13. #27
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    I can only imagine how exciting it is to have nice building stuff appear in Guatamala!

    It is exciting enough when it arrives at an Australian home ... but the sense of the journey and the long wait must make it feel terrific!

    MIK

  14. #28
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    Jul 2012
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    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    I can only imagine how exciting it is to have nice building stuff appear in Guatamala!

    It is exciting enough when it arrives at an Australian home ... but the sense of the journey and the long wait must make it feel terrific!

    MIK
    Yeah I'm like a pig in #####!

    Before I start wallowing I need get my next round of ordering underway so that I have the hardware, rigging, paint, sail etc when I have finished putting together the hull:

    1. Does anyone have any strong opinions on using satin, sem-gloss or gloss paint / clear finish. I'm thinking of using System Three's WR-LUP water base finishes; the inside finished clear, the sides white and the bottom black.
    2. I noticed that there is a 12-14 week waiting time for purchasing sails at the moment - does anyone know how I can shorten this. 3 months + up to 2 months for delivery means that I could be looking at having to wait until February before I get out sailing. I am open to making my own sail but don't have access to a sowing machine - or any experience making a sail.

    Thanks for any advice offered!

    Cheers

    Matt

  15. #29
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    Jul 2005
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    WBLPU can be a bit tricky ... it relies on humidity to dry and while some jobs turn out well, some turn out badly ... particularly if one part of the shed is a bit warmer than others (which drops the humidity).

    PAR in Florida, which I would normally consider damp does use WBLPU but will but a curtain up around the boat and hose the floor down before each coat. Just to make sure there is adequate humidity.

    You can probably search for some of his posts by searching for wblpu or water based polyurethane.

    I'll let the other goatees tell you about how they went with gloss or satin.

    When using conventional paints I sometimes do the undercoats and then add a small amount of the undercoat to the final gloss white. But I would generally only recommend it for interiors. Longevity of paint does depend to some extent on the level of gloss.

    But a number of approaches have been used.

    MIK

  16. #30
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    Jul 2005
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    I do have a simplified sail design done for the Goat. But I do recommend getting proper sailcloth to do it rather than polytarp.

    Also I have instructions lifted from the OzRacer plans. You would need to find a zig zag sewing machne. With the right sort of double sided tape you can stick the sail together then take it to be sewn in one hit.

    MIK

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