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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Santa Cruz La Laguna
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    134

    Default

    I've had a bit of a set back with the epoxy coating I've done over the last couple of days. I came to give it a sand today (36 hrs after the last coat went on) and the top layer started to flake of - like sunburnt skin. It looks like the third coat didn't bond to the first two which seem to have gone on well. In the photo the area to the right has already been sanded back - the framing in the centre of the photo has had a swipe with 220 sand paper.




    I put the third coat on 12 hours after the first two, which went on 2-3 hours apart. Either I didn't mix this batch right or the System Three SilverTip claim that "Subsequent coatings applied at any time between this soft set stage and 72 hours do not need to be sanded and will chemically bond." is now looking a bit questionable.

    I'll sand the bulkheads and transom back over the next couple of days and then give them another two coats each.

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  3. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default Goat Island Skiff (Guatemala)

    I used Silver Tip. I did have one instance of delamination on one rudder box cheek. I couldn't recall the exact circumstances except that I was coating those parts sporadically as a way to use excess epoxy.

    Other than that, I had no problems with waiting a long time between coats. Some parts I sanded between coats, sometimes not. I used MIKs recommended wet on wet technique for many but not all parts. I can't condemn Silver Tip.


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    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  4. #123
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

    Default

    My reason for not wanting to use it is that without it I am only 3-5mm of the required width, with it I will have to reduce one of the centre pieces by ~25mm (with hand tools).
    Just a thought: What kind of wood are those center staves? A Japanese pull saw and a block plane would make quick work of trimming one of them.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  5. #124
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by surlyone View Post
    I've had a bit of a set back with the epoxy coating I've done over the last couple of days. I came to give it a sand today (36 hrs after the last coat went on) and the top layer started to flake of - like sunburnt skin. It looks like the third coat didn't bond to the first two which seem to have gone on well. In the photo the area to the right has already been sanded back - the framing in the centre of the photo has had a swipe with 220 sand paper.

    I put the third coat on 12 hours after the first two, which went on 2-3 hours apart. Either I didn't mix this batch right or the System Three SilverTip claim that "Subsequent coatings applied at any time between this soft set stage and 72 hours do not need to be sanded and will chemically bond." is now looking a bit questionable.

    I'll sand the bulkheads and transom back over the next couple of days and then give them another two coats each.
    Curses - I feel your pain!

    Some epoxies do give you a 12 hour window for a recoat.

    The problem is that if the surface has had amine (waxy residue) come through with the last stage of cure then it won't stick well.

    The lowest risk way of coating is wet on wet with all three coats. This means each successive coat is laid down well before any amine can come through.

    The things that control amine production (there might be others) are brands of epoxy and temperature. Cooler temps can make an otherwise nicely behaving epoxy that gives 12 hour recoats a problem.

    You will have to wash all the pieces to remove remaining amine at several stages while you are sanding. Let the epoxy cure properly - a couple of days so it won't stick up the paper. Then wash the pieces down with free running water - not blasted and scrub with a scotchbrite. If there is amine it will clump the sanding dust into lumps on the sanding pad. Give it a try. Also avoiding super fast turning sanders seems to help as well as hooking up the sander to a vacuum cleaner to remove dust quickly.

    When the surface is back to OK wash it once more and then roll a fresh coat on using the roller skidding method to give a slick surface.

    Believe me (and it is only small consolation) it can be much worse than this. Often it is good to delay critical steps like this until they can be done right through. It is just the lowest risk strategy and one most professionals will choose too.

    I FEEL YOUR PAIN!

    MIK

  6. #125
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Curses - I feel your pain!

    Some epoxies do give you a 12 hour window for a recoat.

    The problem is that if the surface has had amine (waxy residue) come through with the last stage of cure then it won't stick well.

    The lowest risk way of coating is wet on wet with all three coats. This means each successive coat is laid down well before any amine can come through.

    The things that control amine production (there might be others) are brands of epoxy and temperature. Cooler temps can make an otherwise nicely behaving epoxy that gives 12 hour recoats a problem.

    You will have to wash all the pieces to remove remaining amine at several stages while you are sanding. Let the epoxy cure properly - a couple of days so it won't stick up the paper. Then wash the pieces down with free running water - not blasted and scrub with a scotchbrite. If there is amine it will clump the sanding dust into lumps on the sanding pad. Give it a try. Also avoiding super fast turning sanders seems to help as well as hooking up the sander to a vacuum cleaner to remove dust quickly.

    When the surface is back to OK wash it once more and then roll a fresh coat on using the roller skidding method to give a slick surface.

    Believe me (and it is only small consolation) it can be much worse than this. Often it is good to delay critical steps like this until they can be done right through. It is just the lowest risk strategy and one most professionals will choose too.

    I FEEL YOUR PAIN!

    MIK
    Thanks MIK. From now on I will be doing all the other coating in one go to try and avoid this happening again. Temperatures weren't that low (maybe dropped down to 15C during the night) and the SilverTip epoxy I am using is supposed to be blush free - but I will check and see if there are any clumps when I sand it back and follow your advice. I did notice that when I put on the last coat that it seemed to shy away and didn't spread well over the earlier epoxy layer - is this a sign of amine blush?

    We coated the side panels today with each of the three coats about two hours apart. Hopefully I won't have any problems with these.


  7. #126
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobWes View Post
    Just a thought: What kind of wood are those center staves? A Japanese pull saw and a block plane would make quick work of trimming one of them.
    Hi Bob - yes I have both of these, I was just being lazy. The cedar is easy to cut and plane, so unless the hardwood leading edge is not required I will trim one of the inner staves.

    Cheers

    Matt

  8. #127
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

    Default

    I almost sued you this morning when I opened the November Webwatch at Duckworks. Then I realized who you were and figure it's a coincidence they used my picture of my downhaul for your blog. (I know that picture is on your blog with link to me)

  9. #128
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    I almost sued you this morning when I opened the November Webwatch at Duckworks. Then I realized who you were and figure it's a coincidence they used my picture of my downhaul for your blog.
    Yeah I wasn't aware that Chuck was going to link to my blog or that he would use your picture. I make it pretty clear in my post that I borrowed the vision for the downhaul from your blog. If you would like me to remove the picture I will be happy to.

  10. #129
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

    Default

    No, not at all, man, not at all. I keep the blog for sharing. I was just surfing through and saw some blog address I didn't recognize from some dude down south who looked like he/she was ripping my pictures to make his own blog, once I clicked on it I figured it out pretty quick. I got a good laugh. I added you to my blog list on mine, I didn't even know you had it.

  11. #130
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    767

    Default

    ...hope you turned off the lawyer though; they could rack up a large bill just trying to find Guatemala!
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  12. #131
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

  13. #132
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Holy noodles, davlafont has a killer new avatar picture!

  14. #133
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    236

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    I sent a link to your blog on facebook. Please don't sue - I gave you credit! The places that you sail are so pretty, I wish it was my blog.

  15. #134
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz La Laguna
    Posts
    134

    Default

    I went to buy some mahogany for the mast, boom and yard today. I realise I'm new to wood working but I got a little nervous when a guy with a chainsaw was called in to slice the timber into boards. Turns out this gentleman can weld a chain saw like a scalpel.

    In the video he is finishing the second board - the first board is leaning against the wall.

    Last edited by surlyone; 26th October 2012 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Addition of the last sentence.

  16. #135
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    414

    Default

    You can tell that's not the US. In the States, he'd have on glove, safety goggles, ear protection, and a dust mask. And there'd be orange cones all around him to warn everyone of the "dangerous situation".

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