Thread: Lug Rig Heaven Part 2010.1

Will be fine Csaba.

Sometimes an aluminium yard can be too stiff, but making that part of wood will be fine.

What is the diameter and wall thickness of the aluminium mast?

I guess the broken wooden mast is the one that was damaged in storage over winter.

MIK

Thanks Michael,
The wall thickness is 2 mm and the diameter is 45 mm. (see photo).

Attachment 152890

The mast which got broken last time was the same that was damaged earlier (see photos). I decided not to do any further repairs and I am very interested in the lug rig as well.

Attachment 152891
Attachment 152892

About the capsize: Two weeks ago I was sailing in moderate wind. I When I was about to finish, I approached the pier turning out of the wind, when a sudden gust came and the mainsheet fouled around the tiller and the boat was capsized. The mast hit the pier and broke, I fell in the water but it was not too deep, but my dog was launched into the sky like a racket and fell in the water (she liked it, it is a Labrador - see photo)
Attachment 152903

Attachment 152902
Minutes before the capsize

I don't think that mast will be strong enough. But try. Do you have some extra length? Because there are strategies to reduce the risk of it breaking.

It is 3900 mm. No extra length. Hm, maybe better to build the mast from wood?
What would be the ideal wall thickness and diameter for a lugrig:
Thank you

Hi,
My friend Wojtek Baginski made mast for his Polepunt from alu tube:



...but for bracing it in partner area and above he used cross-shape internal plug (probably over 1 m long) - you can see it plugged (and me ) at another photo:


I think - it can be good instant idea.

Howdy Robert,

There are two problems with using aluminium,

Often the right size is unavailable throughout the world. For example in Australia the number of tubes you can get have been reduced, particularly in the right grades of alloy. This means there is often the choice of having a too light mast or a too heavy one.

The second problem is they they don't look particularly nice.

But if the right size can be found then you are right - can be a good option for an instant boat.

MIK

Different topic. Had a thought about adding a counterweight to the fore end of the yard to "balance" the rig in a different sense. The idea would be to eliminate the twist induced by gravity acting on the yard (and the sail) when the boat is heeled to leeward, and also reduce the inertial motions of the yard that's caused by motions of the boat.

Wonder how much extra weight would be needed to statically "balance" the rig when the mast is horizontal. Adding weight aloft, of course, is normally avoided. But has anybody tried this?

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Different topic. Had a thought about adding a counterweight to the fore end of the yard to "balance" the rig in a different sense. The idea would be to eliminate the twist induced by gravity acting on the yard (and the sail) when the boat is heeled to leeward, and also reduce the inertial motions of the yard that's caused by motions of the boat.

Wonder how much extra weight would be needed to statically "balance" the rig when the mast is horizontal. Adding weight aloft, of course, is normally avoided. But has anybody tried this?

I suppose it's a not good idea:

1. Aditional weight above water line decreasing boat's stability.
2. There are known many solutions for sail twist reducing:
a - many solutions of halyards,
b - many solutions of yard houling parrels,
c - many solutions of tack parrels,
d - many solutions of tack lines and downhauls
...

And... Using unstretchable ropes for halyards, downhauls and accurate tunning of sail would be helpful for it too:

Ropes used by me very cheap and... stretching and I have no experience in balance lugsail tunning still, than you can see to big twist at photo above.

Look below:

You can see minimal twist, but system (solutions) of halyard, yard parrel and downhaul the same like used by me.

Another picture of balance lugsail (Lug Rig Heaven) - with really minimal twist:

Howdy Old Yeller,

The gravity effect of twist is pretty tiny compared to the load on the sail. Additionally if you look at the halyard setup the halyard is attached to the yard at the midpoint anyhow.

We use a halyard system from the 1850s (via Dixon Kemp Manual of Seamanship) that overcomes all the normal criticisms of the lug rig.
It never jams on lowering,
The yard is held close to the mast whatever the wind
The yard comes down level
The sail reefs quite well.

Non stretch halyard and downhaul are essential and lots of downhaul tension.

With the more common system of attaching the halyard to the yard close to the mast - as soon as the halyard is eased the peak drops and points down at the boat. This in turn jams the parrel needed to keep the yard close to the mast (it acts like a spanish windlass). And maybe a little bit of gravitational twist as you suggest.

The better halyard system can be seen on this page - including the midpoint attachment.
Goat Island Skiff (GIS) - systems for lug sails and rigs - Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans

Best wishes
Michael

Thank you Mik and Robhosailer,

All very good comments. I suppose a more peaked-up sail geometry is also less susceptible to twist.

Best,
Grant

This is a photo of the new Welsford S.C.A.M.P. Rigging the halyard like this is said to control the yard nicely during hoisting and dousing. But with a deep reef tied in, the sail plan here has pivoted aft and downward, with the boom end drooping low enough that it could get into trouble. Any way to prevent this lads, other than using the familiar Iain Oughtred style parrel?

Grant

Easy. Slide the halyard attachment point on the yard back a few inches. I have different marks on the yard for different reefs to keep the sail rig where I want it depending on how deep I reefed. The deeper the reef the farther aft it goes. On my GIS 6" is more than adequate for the second reef, for instance.

Initially with the Goat I thought about adding parrel beads, etc., it's not necessary. With a looped cow hitch on the yard to pass the halyard through, one can get a fixed point that won't move under load, but will slide when reefing.

Or move your downhaul attachment further forward on the boom. If you attach it at the front of the boom, use a boom vang (kicker) if necessary to control sail twist and control the angle of the sail with the mast all the time with the relative tension on these two controls.. The sail is setting beautifully.
Peter

Well that sounds simple enough! Which attachment point on the yard do you shift? At the fore end, or near the middle of the yard?

Grant

Originally Posted by callsign222

Easy. Slide the halyard attachment point on the yard back a few inches. I have different marks on the yard for different reefs to keep the sail rig where I want it depending on how deep I reefed. The deeper the reef the farther aft it goes. On my GIS 6" is more than adequate for the second reef, for instance.

Initially with the Goat I thought about adding parrel beads, etc., it's not necessary. With a looped cow hitch on the yard to pass the halyard through, one can get a fixed point that won't move under load, but will slide when reefing.