Thread: Olympics

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Keelboats (Star) and Windsurfers are history...

I've always had a soft spot for the Star. What a great design that was. Sob, sob...

Hi Bruce,

I know.

At least catamarans are back. I gave up on sensible choices by the Olympic Committees when they threw out the Tornado.

The good thing about it was the chorus of very high level monohull sailors saying it was an outrageous and stupid decision.

Here is something fun

Multihull Classes.............General.......Wind HC For Handicap Range
Code................................................0-1......2-3......4.......5-9
Nacra 17 Uni no spi..........73.2.............75.7....75.0....73.2....71.0
Tornado (Int.) 2-trap spi...59.0.............62.2....60.5....57.8....55.5
Tornado 1-trap no spi.......63.9.............67.0....65.6....63.1....60.6

The lower the number the better. The non trapeze and non spinnaker Tornado is bigger for sure ... but even without the go fasts it is 15% faster than the much newer Nacra.

This is to show what a brilliant beast the Rod March designed Tornado was. It was designed in 1967 (off the top of my head) and has beaten all comers for close to 50 years.

And note how much faster it goes with different Beaufort wind strengths showing that you can push it harder than the newer Nacra.

Insanely great boat.

A lot of it was the hull shape, the rest was that it was a bit delicate built to the original weight but they didn't increase the weight ... rather ... waited a few years for more clever construction ideas to develop.



I'll give John Goodman a yell.

Michael

I started sailing a Tornado in 1972 on USA 41. My own boat USA 471 cost about $3500 in 1974. A new Tornado can cost $30,000 when rigged out and if you want to compete on the International level you have to have a boat in the USA and in Europe. The expense of these boats is one of the things the Olympic Committee considered and why they are going to a production boat. I hate to see the Tornado go, but a lot of good sailors were priced out of the market and the others spent more time trying to raise money or get sponsorship funds and not training.

More later.......

ISAF has announced the Techno 293 windsurfer and the Byte CII dinghy have been chosen as equipment for the four sailing events at the 2014 Youth Olympic Games in Nanjing, China.

Youth Olympic Games Events and Equipment

Boy's One person dinghy - Byte CII
Girl's One person dinghy - Byte CII
Boy's Windsurfing- Techno 293
Girl's Windsurfing - Techno 293

ISAF Head of Competitions, Alastair Fox said, "The Byte CII and the Techno 293 are fantastic choices for the YOG. The equipment is modern, visually exciting and extremely well suited for the 15/16 age category for the sailing events. ISAF will be working closely with the Classes, the Chinese Yachting Association and the Nanjing Organising Committee to deliver a successful sailing competition on Lake Jinniu during the Nanjing 2014 YOG."
The Techno 293 and Byte CII were on display at the inaugural Singapore 2010 Youth Olympic Games.
Lara Vadlau (AUT) took gold in the girls Byte CII in Singapore and followed this up with a gold at the 2011 ISAF Youth Worlds. The Austrian then qualified her country for the London 2012 Olympic Sailing Competition at the 2012 470 World Championships marking a fantastic run of results stemming from the inaugural Youth Olympic Games.
Virgin Islander Ian Barrows sailed to gold in the boys Byte CII in Singapore whilst in the Techno 293 the honours went the way of Siripon Kaewduang-Ngam (THA) in the girls and Mayan Rafic (ISR) in the boys.
The 2014 Youth Olympic Games will take place from 16-24 August 2014 in Nanjing, China with the sailing taking place in the northern outskirts of the city at Nanjing Jinniu Lake.
The Qualification System for the 2014 YOG is currently being finalised with the IOC and more information will be released in due course.
- ISAF

It's not hard to see where the BYTE CII genes come from:

Attachment 211141 Attachment 211142

Byte Class :: International Association

Originally Posted by john goodman

I started sailing a Tornado in 1972 on USA 41. My own boat USA 471 cost about $3500 in 1974. A new Tornado can cost $30,000 when rigged out and if you want to compete on the International level you have to have a boat in the USA and in Europe. The expense of these boats is one of the things the Olympic Committee considered and why they are going to a production boat. I hate to see the Tornado go, but a lot of good sailors were priced out of the market and the others spent more time trying to raise money or get sponsorship funds and not training.

More later.......

In Australia with no local builder I heard of prices much higher than that a long time ago. Maybe 50 or 60K a decade or more ago. Battens from Germany, Hulls from England (maybe ... can't remember what I was told).

A real international shopping list.

Nothing manufactured here apart from the Ronstan blocks.

Whereas with A-class we had a very long manufacturing of world class level boats.

MIK

Originally Posted by john goodman

I started sailing a Tornado in 1972 on USA 41. My own boat USA 471 cost about $3500 in 1974. A new Tornado can cost $30,000 when rigged out and if you want to compete on the International level you have to have a boat in the USA and in Europe. The expense of these boats is one of the things the Olympic Committee considered and why they are going to a production boat. I hate to see the Tornado go, but a lot of good sailors were priced out of the market and the others spent more time trying to raise money or get sponsorship funds and not training.

More later.......

I'm restoring a 1968 Binks Flying Dutchman.How does the FD compare to the Tornado?Not mine but the FD itself

These decisions have little to do with sailing and a lot to do with "market share". Simply put, if they can't sell it, they want to eliminate it.

Sailing isn't a particularly attractive spectator's sport, it's difficult to film and most "just don't get it" while watching. Couple this with broadcast commentators that often are fine sailors in their own right, but absolutely the worst things you can have on air or behind a microphone and you can see why sailing venues aren't covered often, nor very well. You can't get advertiser's dollars, if the sport isn't considered palatable by the viewers, so it's canceled. A simple business decision.

Sailing in the Olympics, has had a steady and continuous decline in interest, for some decades now. The Americas Cup too has fallen to this as well, though there's enough money in that venue to warrant an F1 approach, which naturally brings on market share that can't be ignored.

They are hoping that kites will rekindle spectators with their acrobatics and spectacular crashes. This is what folks want to see, boats and sailors flying through the air, crashes and broken limbs maybe. Possibly demolition derby sailing, with spike laden keel boats? How about Laser surfing in 10' breakers? Consider the "World Sailing Idol" with singing skippers, in bikinis of course, shooting breakers on a rough inlet. The goal not to drop a note or capsize. In a perfect world, naked coed sailing would be a popular spectator sport, plus Olympic logo encrusted binocular sales, would soar through the roof. Now this does address market share in a way they could get their hands around.

I think there is a lot of truth in that Paul ... but you can see that the viewing market share in terms of air time for sailing is tiny.

Bring on nude collegiate sailing! The Baywatch Olympics?

The problem in my eyes that the whole thing has been beaten up to make such impossible amounts of money that one by one sports will be cut out.

I am thinkiing of what actually gets airtime ... sprints (seconds), marathons (one event), Cycling (seconds or one event), weightlifting, Women's gymnastics, a bit of a patchwork of field sports and equestrian as they come up into the finals, in Australia swimming swimming and more swimming. Bit of high diving as it gets up into the finals.

Or maybe I don't watch enough to know.

I'll offer an alternative point of view ... pull the money out and watch it decline and then watch it grow as it becomes grass roots again.

USOC Tax Return Reveals Decline in Executive Pay, Compensation | The Sport Digest

Sandusky pointed out that total salaries paid to the CEO, COO, CFO, CMO and General Counsel dropped 23 percent in 2010 from 2009 and total compensation of the same group dropped 42 percent. However, salaries were the No. 2 expenditure for the USOC at $25.6 million.

Tops was the $45.3 million in grants paid to 106 governmental and other organizations in the U.S., with the grants ranging from $5,000 apiece to Casper Mountain Biathlon Club and U.S. Federation Handcycling to $4.4 million for USA Track and Field. The U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association was awarded $3.9 million, U.S. Speedskating $2.6 million and USA Swimming $2.4 million. These four federations account for the bulk of the medals during the Olympics.

The USOC spent another $21.5 million in grants, services and programs to elite athletes. From the athlete performance pool, 1,696 athletes received a combined $11.5 million for training support. Operation Gold provided $2.8 million and health insurance and other medical benefits totalled $6.7 million.

This is just the USA and I am not pointing the finger particularly there. But I assume before the 23% drop in executive salaries that they were closer to the maximum item a few years before .. and I would assume there are many more athletes supported than the number of executives (and minor staff) and then a larger still number of athletes that get little or no support getting close to olympic level off their own bat.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Bring on nude collegiate sailing! The Baywatch Olympics?

Well, the nude Olympics may be closer than you think MIK. This image of one of the US' golden girls of match racing was all over the internet today.

Attachment 215978

It was PAR's idea ... he deserves the credit.

It's nice who reads this forum!

MIK

The world is changing Mik and I'm afraid not for the better. There once was a time when a person could do something, but didn't, now we do, because we can, not that we should. There was a time when an employer tossed a big party for their employees, maybe a few times a year, as thanks for their efforts in the months past, but now they've absorbed those frivolous expenditures, as profits for their share holders. Once taking care of your people was paramount, now only if you can justify the cost.

Sailing interest has been on the decline since the 1960's and dramatically so since the 1980's. Much like the situation comidty on TV, replaced with a much easier to film and produce reality show, where they don't need to pay script writers or joke writers or even well known actors, all for profit. Gone is the care for the customer, consumer and employee, replaced with the need for profit. They made profit before, but now they can make more and who cares, so long as the board and share holders are happy. Soccer (football) is a wonderful game, loved world wide, but it can't be marketed for TV in the USA, so it'll never have the popularity, the rest of the world finds in it here.

Sailing is falling into this same, sad state in most of the world. My little piece of America has a large sailing community, but it's now difficult to find a mooring, because the condo owners don't want their view spoiled by a sailboat's mast. Again, sailing isn't a very good spectator sport, at least not for TV, so it's just not worth considering. No significant market share can be generated, so it must be worthless right? There are several odd sports that don't get much, if any air time in the Olympics. They too will be on the chopping block. For the life of me, I can't understand why curling has survived.

When I think about these things, I picture one of my dogs, Indy. He's a rottweiler and just loves to run. He has a huge area to govern with his 3 other buddies and no real reason to run for anything, he just does because he enjoys it. You can see it in his face as he does, the pure enjoyment of it, the simplicity, and he's naturally inclined for it. As a child, I remember just breaking out into sprints, for no other reason than I could. Sailing is the same thing to me and most that I know. It's just something we love to do and those that don't, can't and think you shouldn't, probably because there's no market to peddle it in. They just don't see the enjoyment on the faces of those that do it because they can, nor the reason it must be cherished, much like the reruns of 30 year old situation comedies as opposed to the shameful actions, of ridiculous people faking real life drama, in their completely dysfunctional lives, on the latest "Housewives" episode.

I don't know if I feel completely bad about the situation ... or maybe I am trying hard not to sound like an angry (almost) old man

I get really excited about lots of stuff ... there are positives too and it mostly from individuals and small groups ... bit like the constituents of this broader forum really.

People like doing stuff and talking about it and showing it. And a few people have changed their lives as well. Look at BobWes who is off towing his Goat Island Skiff all over the USA (he had to leave it behind this trip ... but otherwise..). Or Rick who has found he is an insanely fast builder of boats. Or Alex who has the most baby bottom smooth under deck areas I have felt in my life and is also back into aeromodelling.

Then outside boating there is hip hop, rhyming competitions, Flash Mobs, 'zines, cooking blog groups, cosplay ... a thousand and one little creative rebellions where people have decided in one way or another to do something for themselves to bring something into the world. Often in the cheapest way possible!

I think it is positive ... and that's what home boatbuilding came from too ... and it fed into and created the groundswell that became increasingly commercialised sailing.

Just got a sales invoice from Duckworks ... 3 Eurekas, 5 quick canoes, 5 OzRacer RVs, 3 OzRacer Mk2s, three Goat Island Skiffs and I think there might have been a BETH in there too.

Wonder how many Lasers an individual dealer sold last month?

And then that doesn't count the Michalaks, Welsfords, Oughtred's, Ricellis, Paynes and dozens more designs. It is big ... and social media and Forums like this help people meet and encourage each other.

Can't really be too grumpy about it. Commercial sailing will appeal to fewer and fewer people ... but I have a real sense of which part of sailing is growing now!

MIK

There is no doubt that globally there is a decline in the uptake in sailing, but there are pockets of hope. In our club’s first year of its LTS (Learn to Sail) program, we taught 76 kids to sail and membership increased by around 130 on the back of it. We had no spare boats and did it by chartering Bics and largely the program covered its own costs.

We had only one qualified instructor, but lots of keen members helping out. Now we have two qualified instructors, and I am about to become the 3rd. When 3 local keelboat clubs heard about what was happening, we received 6 new Bics as donations, with the promise of more if we need them. Just around the Point, a member of our club, an ex Laser World Masters Champion, has also started his own “not for profit” sailing school, and schools are lining up to feed students into his program which operates during the working week.

One of the headmasters has said that the change in attitude of some of his more difficult charges has been nothing short of remarkable, and the kids just love sailing. In fact they are out there today in an icy blast in the middle of winter....sailing. That’s how keen they are. A very nice Etchells has now been donated to the sailing school, so we are planning on how best to use it.

The problem now is where to next? The parents of some of the lucky ones have bought boats, but there are some really keen kids whose parents just cannot afford to buy. But what is different nowadays to when we were teens just starting to sail, was the number of classes that could be home built. My first boat was a banger that came ashore after a race with the deck awash because it leaked so badly. But then my dad had an idea and we spent the next few months building 5 Dabchicks.

This is the problem. The sport has become hi-tech and not many boats are home-built any more. The Opti went from a home-built –in-a-weekend boat to a costly plastic import. This alone has not done the sport any favours and in hindsight it should never have been allowed to happen by ISAF. While the Opti is still a strong class, it has had a drastic effect worldwide on getting kids into the sport.

Like I said, pockets of hope do exist and if sailing clubs have enthusiastic members, amazing stuff can be achieved.

Congrats to the Brits for the excellent sailing coverage of the Olympics and for showing the world that Olympic sailing can be a spectator sport. What a venue! It would have to rate as the best in the world for breeze and for viewing. Just awesome.