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  1. #136
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    Given the amount of hand-sanding that I'm going to be doing - having lent my ROS to a mate and can't get hold of it immediately - I'll keep a sharp eye on it all. I agree about the dust extraction. Having had the vacuum hooked up to the sander I didn't get much clogging sanding from the large amount of paint from the clear oregon I'm going to be using for various spars - and there was a lot of paint! I'll run the vacuum while using the paper, and see if I can suck at least 50 % of the dust away. Or move the nozzle as I sand ;).

    I'm currrently trying out the Wurt "Sahara" sandpaper that BoatCraft sells - 120 grit in this instance, which is the coarsest that I got from them. Maybe I should be using a coarser grit? I had a go with some 60 grit Norton yellow "Master Painter's" brand paper off the roll (like the Sahara) last night - it chewed through the resin quite well, but I stopped because I felt that the grit was too coarse and I would be hitting the wood if I didn't watch out! Not sure whether it has relase agents or not - I assume not, though, given its nominal use.

    The ROS that I have is the bottom-of-the range Bosch Green PEX - model 11A, I think. It has dust extraction but not quite the weight/mass that would make it a bit more useful. I might have a look in the local Rabbit Warren or Mitre 10 to see what they have, e.g., a 12A or better (whatever the current model-number-of-the-month is). At the right price, of course...

    The hardener ratio may have been off in a couple of batches - the resin pump took so long to come up I may have lost count (hardener pump pops up fine). Which is one excellent reason for warming up the resin (and hardener), apart from allowing it to go off quicker, spread more easily, etc.

    The second side panel should be good and hard - and not sticky - by now, and will have a go at it some time after I get back from the doctor's (unless she bans me from any boat work, eeeeeek!!!!!).

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  3. #137
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    Here are some photos from yesterday.

    1. part-sanded bow transom - unscrubbed state:





    2. The four pieces of Sahara that I used - I was going through these about one every 10 minutes. In the end I got out the brass toothbrush and gently scrubbed the "scale" off. I figured that even if I blunted the paper quicker than normal, I would still end up getting more actual working life out of it without the dags.





    The next four photos are a set of before-and-after shots. The papers used here were new sheets, Wurt "Sahara" 120 grit. And I should have been wearing gloves!

    3. Paper after sanding but before cleaning, scrubbed region (3M ScotchBrite green pad, no foam backing)





    4. Paper after gentle cleaning with brass-bristled "toothbrush", scrubbed region





    5. Paper after sanding but before cleaning, unscrubbed region





    6. Paper after cleaning, tried to use same approx. pressure used as on "scrubbed region" paper





    With the same approx pressure on the wire brush, the unscrubbed region paper has a much larger "scale" on it. This isn't a well-replicated sample: it is, however, indicative. More later, have to go off to see the doctor about my snout...

  4. #138
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    Did you say you had a sander?

    I would say that the random orbit sanders tend to clog paper less than any alternative.

    Also the paper ... is it alumina paper or something else. The Alumina paper tends to clog a lot less.

    MIK

  5. #139
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    Hi MIK,

    Yes, I have a random orbital, a Bosch PEX-11A, single-speed lightweight 250W ROS. I've currently lent it to a friend so that he can sand down the plywood superstructure that he has on the back of his light truck (for carrying gardening tools about in). I though I might take the opportunity to survey the scene wrt sanders while he had it: I've alsways foud that particular model rather lightweight.

    On the way home from the doctor's (she was most encouraging of the project - as long as I continue to wear the repsirator :), I had a look in Bunnies at the current range - they had a PEX-400AE 400 W with speed control and a heavy duty front handle (much like the sander that appears in some of your photos at DF(?)) for $150.00. I didn't get a chance to go back and get the sander this arvo, as I wasn't feeling too snappy.

    I also didn't get down to the workshop until after dinner - the new antibiotic seems to be rather heavy duty - and consequently only got about a quarter of the side panel done before I decided that I had had enough.

    While I was working on the side panel I tried some 120 grit white (alumina?) paper, but it seemed to gum up as quickly as the Sahara paper. I switched back to the Sahara. There appears to be a sort of meniscus of resin around the edges of the panels, where the resin is quite a bit thicker. This requires more sanding as a result, and seems to be a bit stickier.

    I'm getting a nice, even finish, though, which will serve as a good base for the last resin coat and the subsequent interior (and deck, once I get to those bits) varnish coats (at least on the exposed part of the side panels). I ordered some Goldspar from DF, which should get here by the time that I need it.

    Bosch apparently do a black "stone" series of sanding disks, which are nominally for stone, but fibreglass is also listed as an appropriate material for use with this disk type, so when I either get a new sander or my old one back, I'll play about with this type - if I can find it.

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  6. #140
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    I've also got a Bosch Prio Lithium ROS, which looks a bit like a small clothes iron. It has a dust extraction port (the hose adapter is with the sander my mate's got), but it can't really cut the mustard - or in this case the resin - terribly efficiently without running out of charge too quickly, then it's back to the block. So I've written it out of the equation for this project.

  7. #141
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    Hello again MIK,

    I feel as though I'm going daft at the moment. I kept meaning to put in a bit about the Sahara paper, but kept forgetting. <sigh>

    It's a roll paper made by Wurt, sold by the metre, in a range of grits, is sand-coloured, and is sold by BoatCraft, see this link here.

    It is actually very nice to use as it does hold its cut pretty well - it just doesn't seem to like the way that I mix up the BoteCote. At the moment I am treating my mixing - or at least the ratio - as the suspect variable, and am going to take very careful steps to make sure that it isn't in the future. I am very careful when actually mixing: I cut off the end of the tongue depressors that I use square, so that they can get into the angle between the bottom and the side of the mixing containers. I will redouble my efforts when mixing just in case it's not homogeneous enough.

    I will have a chance on the weekend to have a proper go at these things: tomorrow is a working-in-town-for-money day.

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  8. #142
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    If you are using the pumps .. make sure the resin is a bit warm by putting it out in the sun.

    If measuring manually (more efficient for bigger mixes) then use a parallel sided tin with a dipstick made of the wooden stirring stick .. as the resin is a 2 to 1 mix put two marks on the bottom of the stick.

    One can be 15 mm above the end of the stick the other can be 30mm above the first mark.

    Carefully pour up to those points.

    The mix does have a little bit of tolerance either way .. but not enough to be sloppy (I know you, most particularly, are NOT sloppy)

    MIK

  9. #143
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    Howdy MIK,

    Is using warm water in the sink OK? We don't have a lot of direct sunlight.

    Thanks for the tip about measuring without pumps - the pumps seemed like a great idea at the time, but in practice have turned out to be a bit of a nuisance. Or to be more exact, the resin viscosity + pump + my counting is problematic. I am definitely going to start warming up the resin from now on, though!

    Today isn't going to be a going-in-to-work day after all, the snout is still not really sufficiently sociable (and you should hear my family on the subject - at least they've both gone out for the day!). It reminds me of the Russian author Gogol's slightly surreal novel "The Nose"...

  10. #144
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    Another trip to the Rabbit Warren - acquired the PEX 400AE ROS, and a batch of sanding disks, although being Bunnies there wasn't a Bosch-branded "stone" sanding disk in sight, no surprise there. I got a handful of Norton disks of varying grades instead. And a nice clear piece of Tas Oak, 30 x 19 x 2400 mm for the foils' TEs. I might try and trim some off so that there isn't as much waste when the blank gets planed. Funnily enough an email came in from MIK via pdracer regarding foils, WRC, hardwood TEs and Paulownia while I was writing the bit about the Tas Oak. Spooky!

    The new sander is great! It is much more pleasant to use than its predecessor, and has a much better dust-catcher as well: a solid plastic box with a fine cardboard filter, compared with a paper bag with a not very positive attachment to the (old) machine. The new filter type seems to be pretty good at catching what's thrown at it, which is pretty well most of the dust. Stuff only seems to escape when the sander strays over the edge, and that used to happen with the old sander plugged into the vacuum setup anyway. I'll be interested to see how the new device performs when attached to the vacuum cleaner.

    Being a heavier machine it doesn't have quite the same amount of unpleasant vibration as the old one either, but I'll still wear heavy gloves when using it. As to resin removal, it really is a lot fast than the sanding block :). I tried 120 and 80 grit discs, and came to the conclusion that 120 was as coarse as I needed to go. There was a small amount of resin stuck to the discs, which came off with a few strokes of a normal toothbrush without leaving any hickies (as they used to say at the offset printery where I worked a long time ago). I didn't use a lot of downward pressure - just guided the machine up and down the bit of side panel I was working on.

    I got half the panel done in probably just over five minutes - the same area with the block would have taken well over an hour.

    I followed the ROS up with some work with the block, and nothing much stuck to the paper until I strayed over the edge and put too much pressure on the centre of the block - this made the resin stick to the paper very solidly at that point.

    This has all cheered me up no end - I feel as though I'm back on track again, and now just need to sort out the resin temperature and mixing. I still have a nagging suspicion that it is also the conditions in the workshop that are contributory. Perhaps I should turn on the Dimplex.

    Photos:

    1. The new sander, straight out of the box and unused (despite my resiny fingerprints)





    2. Lots of snow! Everwhere! One quarter of the side panel sanded at this stage - took about 45 minutes last night...





    3. 120-grit Bosch disc after about 1 minute of use. Note the decided lack of snow on the side panel! The sander has hoovered it all up!





    4. Same disk after a little light scrubbing with a nylon toothbrush





    5. The Sahara 120-grit paper after several minutes' sanding and straying over the edge. The sanding block doesn't hoover up much of the dust ;).





    6. Three quarters of the second side panel done now!


  11. #145
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    The new ROS works as expected with the vacuum cleaner, thanks in part to my mate who got the vacuum adapter over to the Boss at lunch time today :). And The Boss, who organised it in extremis. Thanks, Boss :). And it seems to be a good machine, well worth the $150. It's good feeling that I don't have to thrash it!

    The PEX doesn't take long to flatten the 'poxy at all - I have to keep the machine moving steadily to prevent it drilling done rather rapidly through the resin and into the wood! I'll be able to finish off the side panel nice and quickly, then run the thing over the bow transom, which I'm not happy with.

    Spent an hour or so this evening block-sanding the tank sides on both sides with 120, 180 & 240 grit Sahara - pleasantly relaxing after all the fuss with the resin - if rather dusty. Nice, crisp result on the tank sides. And NO clogging :).

  12. #146
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    Cool ... no clogging is good! Generally I don't go through the grades when something is going to be painted, glued or varnished. Probably finish off with 180 but very careful to get the surface flat.

    MIK

  13. #147
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    It's probably the frustrated cabinet-maker in me trying to get out. I keep telling myself it's a boat, not a set of bookshelves...errr...wait a minute, didn't I read somewhere...?

    :).


    Alex.

  14. #148
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    Quick query to MIK - is the foldover margin for the sails 40 mm or 50 mm?

  15. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexN View Post
    I keep telling myself it's a boat, not a set of bookshelves...
    On the other hand, there is another thought that is more to the forefront, that goes along the lines of "it's a boat, so it should get more care than a set of bookshelves..."

    Finished off the remaining unsanded bits of bulkhead and panel with the ROS, then went back over both side panels with very coarse steel wool and scrubbed at the various screw holes and associated indentations (ouch) to get the gloss surface off and give a better glueing surface at these points.

    Final epoxy coat and then glueing up the cleats this afternoon, after a thorough cleanup of the parts and the surroundings, and warming up the resin while I'm doing the cleaning. Keeping an eye on the weather as it looks as though it might be getting damp again this arvo - not enough to do any good to the soil or the dams, but enough to mess up the epoxy...

  16. #150
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    Nah...final tweaking of panels is what it was. Drilling out the filled in screw holes (had to find them first using the various stick-on bits where the side panels were concerned) was a major part, and vacuuming then swabbing down the coated surfaces with meths. Resin flows much more nicely with the container in a water bath for a few minutes, but will have to make sure containers are dry before taking back to workshop!

    Suspected showers didn't eventuate, my own weather forecasting is slipping ;).

    I am going to have to be far more ruthless about the air bubbles - too many pinholes in the resin. Not good.

    Resin coat(s?) and cleat/clamp/chinelog glueing tomorrow, unless I find some more excuses!

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