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  1. #121
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    It's taking a lot longer than I was expecting, starting with the sifting of the HS-powder. I should have done that between coats, not first up: rather silly bit of time mismanagement there :(. Still, the powder is more even - less lumps in it, should be quicker to mix up the glue as a result. I used my "soup-spoon-and-stainless-steel-flour-sieve" method: sieve off the lumps, then squish them back through the sieve. Many of the lumps were white in colour - Q-Cels?

    The first coats have taken somewhat longer than the others, because - and here I'm likely to invoke MIK's ire ;) - I added some TPRDA to the mixture, having swallowed BoatCraft's sales pitch on it.

    At least I've got the working environment reasonably tidy, with plenty of room to walk around the table and also to mix up the resin, clean rollers, etc. Another time-hoover was the rollers: cutiing them up was easy, but it took a long time to vacuum off the bits of plastic inner tube that immediately attached themselves to the foam via static. I wasn't expecting that one, and it took well over 15 minutes. In the end it might have been quicker to pick off the bits of plastic from the bulkheads! They certainly would have been visible.

    Anyay, I whacked the first coat on all three bulkheads, and got the amount of resin pretty well bang on - by chance! Got to win something some time ;). Realising that the current strategy would take to long, I cleared off the saw table, put down three shelf boards and covered them with plastic, then moved the bulkheads over to them. This allowed me to lay out the side panels and get started on them. Wasn't so clever with the second lot of resin: made up around 30 % too much.

    The current status is two coats on the bulkheads and one on the side panels. The side panels are still too wet to recoat, with the bulkheads only just turning, so I'll check them again in an hour. I can boost the air temperature a bit by turning on my hot air blower (for shrink-wrapping etc.), but am a little wary of getting it too close to the work and harming the resin structure.

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  3. #122
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    Where I'm up to this evening: the cold is back, bother it. It's not the resin - I had the mask on all the time in the workshop. Very frustrating.

    The bulkheads now have three coats, the side panels two, at time of writing. I'm tempted to put a fourth coat on the lot given my use of TPRDA in the first coat, even though it is supposed to be resin-based. Given the time that it's taking for the resin to start going off, I'll be lucky to get the side panels' third coat on this evening. I borrowed my daughter's weather station thermometer (which is reasonably accurate callibrated against one that is known to be reasonable itself) this morning to keep an eye on the temperature: it has been hovering around the 20 degC mark all day.

    Unless, of course, I've misunderstood what Michael is saying in his instructions. My understanding is that the next coat goes on once the previous coat starts to lose its stickiness and is starting to gel. I have been very careful counting the number of pumps of each part, so it's not the wrong proportions.

    My operational list didn't last too long - I'd forgotten to include the sifting of the high-strength powder (which I needn't have done anyway as I'm not going to get to the glueing stage today), and the cutting up of the rollers had an unwelcome "gotcha". The cut down rollers have been sowing a tendency to delaminate from the core towards the end of each session as well. My credit account is back on line, so I'm going to order the right ones for doing the outside of the boat, etc. The time between coats was also a major factor in revealing that my plans were rather too optimistic. But then, this whole exercise is a learning experience for me(!), so I'm not whingeing. Too much, anyway ;).

    I took a few photos in transit, which follow. The more unusual ones are those of my rather idiosyncratic (same would say eccentric, but I wouldn't ;) method of dealing with the HS filler powder's lumps.

    1. A collection of stuff. This was later stripped down and moved so that I could use the saw table as a work bench.





    2. Sawn-up foam rollers: vacuumed rollers on the left, plastic-crumbed rollers on the right.





    3. More stuff: two soup spoons, a cake tin, a parsley mincer, and a stainless steel sieve. All cast-offs from the kitchen. No, really, they were! Honest! The parsley mincer wasn't used this time (I've used it on Q-Cels, though). I should have had a star filter on for that shot ;).





    4. The sifted results: powder on the left, lumps on the right.





    5. Squished and unsquished: top and bottom respectively





    6. Squashed lumps. I used the back of a soup spoon for this. Note the white streaks - Q-Cels?





    7. First coat, bulkhead panels. Note the thermometer.





    8. Bulkheads moved onto the saw table (pine boards are under the blue plastic, holding it all up)





    9. Setting up for the side panels. These are the trimmed pieces of oregon for the hull stiffeners, etc.: covered on all sides and ends with brown packaging tape





    10. Bulkhead panels, third coat





    11. Side panels, second coat. Oops! Mixed too much resin that time!





    12. Bow transom, third coat. Seems a shame to hide away all that nice wood - that's the inside (bouyancy tank) face of the transom.





    I appear to have hoovered up most of my month's Flickr allowance already! Wow! I suspect that they're going to start asking for MONEY next ;). And me with a "new" credit card...

    I'm off to check the condition of the side panels now, seee if I can put the third coat on yet or not. 2.5 hours since the last one went on...

    Query to MIK - did you find the conversation about the car-topping elevators yet. And if so, any comments?

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  4. #123
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    Been pondering the coating (still waiting for the side panels to be ready - maybe 11 pm). As the surface on all panels is a bit rough, I think I'll let the third coat cure and sand back with 120 "Sahara" paper until I've got a smooth surface, mop off the dust, then give them all one more coat and glue the bits on once the resin's started to go off. I possibly should have had the resin container in a water bath or on a light box or some such recommended method of getting the resin more fluid/up to temperature. Something to keep in mind when doing the outside of the hull and all the other bits and pieces.

    I'm glad that I didn't start with the Goat - there's just that much more of it! In fact, for the Goat I think I'll go Seajak's route of pre-coating the sheets before cutting out the panels. But I'm getting somewhat ahead of myself here... ;).

    11 pm was good. Whew. Done - three coats on five panels. On the next lot I am going to dispense with the TPRDA. The third coat on the first side panel to get it was showing signs of starting to go off by the time that I'd finished cleanng up the roller - about 40 minutes. Maybe it was just because I was tired and it was wishful thinking. But I do think the diluent slows the process down too much, and as MIK commented to me a while ago, it's really for fixing up rotten timber in repair work. The rough surface appears to be the grain lifting on the wood, so I'll let this lot cure, sand back then recoat one final coat before adding the rest of the stuff to the panels. Some of the ply is so dark that it almost looks like mahogany!

  5. #124
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    Checked yesterday's work this morning it has all set up nicely overnight :). I'm not going to go too mad with the sandpaper, and may use 180 grit instead of 120 for this task. There's a lot of drips on the undersides to deal with, though. Better get them sorted before they go rock hard!

    I had a bit of trouble using the locked roller to smooth the surface of air bubbles. It seemed to make more of a mess than if I left it alone. Maybe I used too much pressure? Maybe I should try using a foam brush? The foam brushes that I have seem to be about the same cell size as the rollers, maybe even a bit finer, and I have one about the width of the (cut-down) rollers.

    All up, I can tick off another stage as done - I had concerns about my patience with this one.

  6. #125
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    Quick query to MIK - what tools would I need to bring from Sydney if I were coming over to do the Spring Boat-building Course?

  7. #126
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    Howdy,

    Bring any sharp edged tools .. at least your own will be sharp. Also basic power tools
    cordless drill/driver
    Jigsaw
    pencils
    tape

    more or less anything you might need a lot for the particular boat.

    There is a good supply of tools at Duck Flat but at times during the classes competition can be quite fierce.

    MIK

  8. #127
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    Hi MIK,

    Many thanks. That won't be cabin baggage ;).

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  9. #128
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    Well... I lent the ROS to "the bloke with the truck" the other day, thinking - for some idiotic reason - that I wasn't going to need it very soon. Or maybe it's just that the resin is still a bit too green. Either way, it has been hard yards this afternoon.

    I had a bright idea as regards the curing, and carted the panels outside (where it's warmer), and turned them uncoated side up in the dappled sunlight (we only ever get full-throttle direct sunlight here around the summer solstice...). I made the location change after removing all the drips, mind you: better to get them while they're still soft.

    The basking panels got about 2.5 hours in the dappled sunlight.

    While I was slogging away at the cockpit bulkhead this evening, for some reason I started comparing my sanding action with that that I use with the hacksaw when cutting metal (and I do a lot of that). Given that sawing, filing and sanding are all closely related, I thought, why not apply what I do with the hacksaw to the sanding block, i.e., slow down to slightly less than one forward and back stroke per second. As with the sawing, the results were immediate. Greater control, more efficient use of effort - and the removal was increased. I also constrained the movement to back and forth, and dropped any sideways motion, and this also seemes to contribute to the success. After all, a file or a saw are not wiggled about - they are used in a straight line.

    I've been sanding the wrong way for years! And doing it the right way is so much easier! But now that I think more on this, dim memories of woodwork lessons at scholl are starting to bubble up - especially the constraints on sanding direction. Well, well.

    The only other problem that I had from then on was the sandpaper clogging up. Possibly the stuff's still a bit too sticky, or the sandpaper's a bit too fine for the job I'm doing - it's the coarsest I've got before my collection of 40 and 60 grit paper.

    I've got the three bulkheads sanded now, and will attempt to coat and glue up the cleats tomorrow afternoon if I get home from work in time. Hopefully the ROS will magically appear at work tomorrow too, so that I can tackle the side panels a bit more expeditiously than otherwise.

    You might wonder why I seem to be putting so much effort into what is largely going to be boxed away in the dark. The answer is "practice for the bits are aren't going to be"! And I serendipitously learnt a valuable lesson about sanding (although I didn't do the sanding to learn a lesson ;).

  10. #129
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    Howdy,

    If the 'pox is a bit cloggy then it might have some small amount of wax residue. Wash the surface of a half a coated piece with water and a plastic scourer and mop it up then let it dry.

    Then sand with new paper and see if that makes a difference when you go back to the unwashed area.

    MIK

  11. #130
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    Hi MIK, thanks for the advice - should I be using cloudy ammonia as well? I found a bottle of it in the laundry this arvo, per the Boss's suggestion that I have a look there .

    My impression of botecote epoxy was that it was supposed to be wax-free - or am I confusing that with amine blush?

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  12. #131
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    Wax and amine blush are the same. In some conditions Bote Cote can still wax, but it is rare.

    But you mentioned stickiness and some clogging and I thought it was a worthy experiment.

    They have found the ammonia is not really needed.

    MIK

  13. #132
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    OK, thanks. I Googled "amine blush" in between replies, and found some quite useful info about its cause. (The Wooden Boat Forum also suggested exactly your solution - water.)

    I'll dig out a new scourer tomorrow and have a go!

    btw, did you ever find the chit-chat a few posts back about car-topping ideas?

    Cheers,
    Alex.

  14. #133
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    The Bote Cote is pretty good at not spilling out amine, but it does happen sometimes ... so I am suggesting an experiment to see if there is a difference between washed and nonwashed areas.

    As far as roofracks .. we are having a bit of a discussion on the RAID thread ... It is the same beam as the PDR.

    MIK

  15. #134
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    Today has been pretty slow.

    An urgent order that I made to BoatCraft yesterday (75 mm rollers and sandpaper ;) turned up this morning. Fantastic! Thanks, Scott!

    The outer surface of the BoteCote is getting pretty tough. I'll be having a go at it with the scourer and clean water in a while, and am hopeing that this will see off the clogging. I'll do another patch withuout treatment to compare. Maybe I got the ratio wrong, but I don't think I did. What I will do for the next batch is warm the resin up. The pump takes too long to return to the fully up position, which also suggests that the resin is somewhat below a reasonable working temperature.

    I didn't get into the workshop until the early evening, having felt crook all day. Off to the quack tomorrow. I've taken some pictures of the sandpaper under a number of conditions, but won't post them until tomorrow - I need to get back to bed :(.

    Anyway, to cut a long story short, I did as MIK suggests, and did some test sanding of parts of a side panel that were scrubbed back with a new ScotchBrite (thanks to The Boss and Franklins :), and parts that were left untouched, using two new pieces of sandpaper of about equal size. These were the only variables that I was able to strap down - after all, I wasn't doing a properly design exp't for statistical analysis ;).

    Ultimately the main difference was not so much the difference in surface treatment (although there was an apparent slight improvement on the side of the scrubbed surface), but the pressure with which I sanded. If I used light pressure, I was able to remove more resin (compare with last night's comments) with greater ease and less clogging, and as soon as I beefed up the pressure, the paper started to clog badly. I kept the sand rate to last night's slow, even, straight, strokes. Actually, here I found that putting slightly more pressure on the "pull" stroke seemed to be more effective. I'm going to continue to watch this and play around with it a bit.

    After all, I have an entire side panel to do! I gave th entire panel a good scrub with the scourer, dried it off with paper towel (including the undersurface where the water had snuck) and left it to completely air-dry overnight, before finishing for the day. The joint is now smothered in what look like drifts of very fine snow!

    One last comment for today - I've been wondering why I never had this problem (or at least noticeably) with the aircraft, using WEST and Pacer (US) resins. I can only suggest that it was because I always wet sanded the epoxy using wet and dry, and also may have used less pressure, now I come to think of it.

    In fact, the more I think of it, the more I can remember sandpapers clogging the harder that I pressed down. Hmmm...

  16. #135
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    Howdy,

    I guess there is clogging and there is clogging. Just trying to get an idea whether it is normal or abnormal.

    The water making no difference means that there is no or no significant wax/amine.

    How much area are you getting done before you have to change paper?
    What grade of paper are you using?

    I have used very high pressure and a fixed head random orbit sander and it sands finde.

    One thing that does make a big difference is dust extraction ... if there is a vacuum linked to the sander and it is working well .. that reduces clogging even on an otherwise perfect setup. Basically the sandpaper lasts a lot longer too apart from the obvious health benefits. Some use an old vacuum cleaner.

    The other possibility is that the mix might have been slightly hardener rich, but then you would find some sheets are easier to sand than others.

    Michael

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