|  |
| Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans For the multitude of wooden boat fans that use, and need info on Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans. Put your questions etc here and they will be answered and dealt with quicker and easier by the man himself and others in the know. |
 | 
3rd May 2008, 12:05 AM
|  | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |  PDRacer - Comparative Performance
Over time we will get some more meaningful data about the performance of the PDRs when we get into some real races around real courses against boats with established performance.
We almost had a chance last weekend but there was not enough water in the River so the racing was called off.
The boats that we would have been racing against would have been Sabres, which would be much faster - but there is a system in place to help gather meaningful comparisons.
In the end I would be happy if the PDRacer has a similar speed to the Optimist which is a similar size but is a youth sailing class - where the PDR is for adults too.
I'd be pretty happy if the PDR proved faster.
Point is that if a boat has reasonable all round performance and handles well - then you can have quite cheap racing - a bit more performance when just cruisin' round.
A few weeks ago we were at West Lakes and I had a chance to sail near Ted Dexter who was sailing Richard's Redback - A Welsford design which is similar to the "Nutshell" dinghy.
Anyway ... Richard has been skiting that Redback was able to see off a challenge by the PDRs. Here is the Pink PDR with me aboard catching up with Richard's boat.
[media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=vuqbeQHJz4c[/media]
Midge has made it somewhat tongue in cheek!!! but the funny thing was that I was humming the same tune as I was catching up.
The important thing to realise is that a lot of that speed is just pure sail area. However because the mast and sail work together as the wind gets stronger it means the boat is still quite OK to handle in stronger winds - up to 25 or so without reefing.
Anyway ... we will put more (and better) info up as we are able to gather it.
Last edited by Boatmik; 3rd Sep 2008 at 02:03 AM.
|
3rd May 2008, 12:09 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
By the way - the other videos showing that the PDRs
Turn well
Go upwind well
Go downwind well
Tack efficiently
Accelerate with proper sail trim
Carry two beginning adult sailors fine
Capsize and right with no water aboard
...
Anyway - all those videos are on this page http://www.storerboatplans.com/video.html
Michael Storer
Thank midge for all the post-production, titling etc!! |
3rd May 2008, 12:17 AM
|  | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
Of course what Mik doesn't tell you is that Ted was heading in to land and was only tootling along while he waited for the crowd on the shore to get out of the way. Nor does he mention that the camera angle distorts the image - Ted was just tootling while Mik was trying his little heart out and barely made up any ground on Redback at all, nor could you see Mik's tears of frustration.
NOR does he mention that in Stansbury Harbour, PDR racers under sail were slower than Redback when being ROWED  (and to be fair, I will mention that the wind had dropped below gale force).
So NYAH!
Richard
the truth only serves to get in the way of a good story  |
3rd May 2008, 12:20 AM
| | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
Cor, you can even see Redback's dagger board go up. You'll notice the PDR board doesn't have to be raised and it's twice as long How much further out WAS the PDR Mik? Hmm?
Richard
he's lucky I hadn't loaded the stern chaser for Ted  |
3rd May 2008, 12:23 AM
| | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
One thing about that clip, it clearly shows the difference in sail area. Any idiot who can read numbers will know that the PDR sail is about twice the size of the Nutshell sail (which Redback uses) but that size difference is clearly shown in the clip, yet both boats are roughly the same size. Redback is shorter by a good 6" but that's nothing.
Just shows what can be done when a good designer puts his mind to it.
Richard |
3rd May 2008, 12:33 AM
|  | Most Valued Member | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Adelaide Age: 54
Posts: 1,749
| |
|
3rd May 2008, 12:39 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Actually that is the other good point.
The Americans have played a lot with rowing 2008 Record
2-23-08 record: 3.6 mph over 1.25 miles by Tim Cleary
2006 Record
3-25-06 record: 2.9 mph over 1 miles by Tim Cleary [article]
3-4-06 record: 2.4 mph over 1.51 miles by Tim Cleary [article]
5-10 Mile Distance
2006 Record
1-20-06 record: 2.23 mph over 5.51 miles by David "Shorty" Routh [article]
10-20 Mile Distance
2006 Record
4-10-06 record 1.7 mph over 11.98 miles by Tim Cleary [article]
And a bit with power
2.5 hp Motoring speed: 4.3 kts [click here]
But Richards will do the same and probable be a nicer rowboat too.
It is OK Richard - we will wait for you to catch up when sailing!
Best wishes
Michael |
3rd May 2008, 12:43 AM
| | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatmik  It is OK Richard - we will wait for you to catch up when sailing!
Best wishes
Michael | Just so long as I don't spill my champagne while circling you 
Richard |
3rd May 2008, 12:48 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
I think you have your frame of reference all mixed up. It can look the same if you are not concentrating.
MIK |
3rd May 2008, 08:57 PM
|  | AJ | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Adelaide SA Age: 49
Posts: 1,161
| |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatmik |
OK.... 8kts doesn't sound much. Untill I realised that's close to 16kph..
Amazing how little fuss it makes in the water for a "box with a sail".
Will be seriously interesting to see the PDR matched up against "normal" boats.
Just one comment about the text (Midge - are you in here?)
How long has Redback been a Nutshell?
Last I looked it was a Welsford Tender Behind. (& was a little quicker than the Nutshell) 
cheers |
3rd May 2008, 10:39 PM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
True it is the Welsford design. But from the Nutshell and the Tender behind sailing round the other day the similarities are pretty intense - even though the bottom shape is a little different. The sheerlines are almost identical.
And in this case the TB has a Nutshell rig and sail.
During the Stansbury weekend I did have Robin Badenoch's GPS aboard. And though it wouldn't stay on for more than a few minutes at a time it seemed happy showing a boat speed of around 3.5 to 4.5 knots in quite a light breeze on all points of sail.
However GPS measurements are REALLY unreliable.
The PDRs had a lot more speed than the TB and the real Nutshell on the afternoon sailing round on all points of sail - not as much as the video shows but probably around 10 to 20%.
That is, until Daddles pulled off the masterstroke and pulled out his oars. It was hard to keep up with him upwind after that.
The test is to get on a racecourse with other boats of known performance.
I don't have a huge amount of expectation about the performance but so far quite happy. Will be happy if it is respectable in all directions and all windspeeds as lots of people think that box shaped boats cannot sail at all.
Best wishes
Michael Storer |
4th May 2008, 12:02 AM
| | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
Next time we have a regatta, we'll have to set out a course. I'd be really interested to see how you'd go in Redback vs me in a PDR. There's no doubt that the PDR is a much faster boat but when you consider my inept sailing abilities vs Mik's vast exprerience, it'll be interesting to see how much influence the boat has. I don't expect to beat him but it would be nice to see him have to work for it ... at least on the first leg.
On that note, I think I'm now ready to try sailing around a course as opposed to just banging around on the water. That basically means that I've got a bit of an idea of how to do things now and can start thinking outside the boat. Of course, I haven't sailed her in anything resembling a breeze yet
Richard |
4th May 2008, 02:03 AM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Ok - so long as I can take the oars!
When is the next sailing day?
MIK |
4th May 2008, 10:37 AM
| | Grumpy old Bugga | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle Age: 54
Posts: 4,631
| |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatmik When is the next sailing day?
MIK | You haven't told us yet 
From my point of view, the opportunities happen fortnightly and with only a few day's notice so if I organise something, it'll be on a 'two day notice' plan.
Others are welcome to organise meets when and where suits them, just bung up a note on the forum. Go on, I know you lot want to (good way of meeting the crew, even if you don't have a boat )
Richard |
13th Sep 2008, 08:05 PM
| | Deeply flawed human being | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: 'Delaide, Australia Age: 51
Posts: 5,923
| |
Gyula from Romania posted this short clip showing how the PDRacer lug goes Quote:
My friend made a short film
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pljlVGhaW4[/media] | | |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
| | |
All times are GMT +11. The time now is 07:40 PM.
|
