PDRs in the USA - Long voyages, meet-ups

Boatmik · #1 10th Jun 2008, 07:41 PM

Well ... some PDRacer news from the USA.

As most of you probably know the PDR is a concept with one defined hullshape and a great deal of freedom about other things.

The Americans started off the whole thing in a different direction to the OZ PDRs - they want to build their boats super cheap and super fast. Happily the rules allow both types of boats to co-exist and both types have benefited from the other.

It has kept the price of building the OZ down - particularly because of the polytarp sails, and gradually some of the US sailors have used OZ type ideas to make their boats faster and more reliable - including recovering from capsize more safely and far greater hull rigidity and better upwind performance.

So - the US sailing season has started - their water has defrosted - and they are out there.

Now remember that I hold the world speed record for PDRs - at the Goolwa Wooden Boat Festival - when it was too blowy for most other boats to get out - I was out there. A measured PEAK speed of 9.1 mph in about 25knots of breeze and a nice chop - my first outing in a decent breeze - so I didn't push as hard as I could have.

Article here http://www.pdracer.com/records/speed/mik/index.htm

Now the Americans are cramping my style - one of their boats has hit 9.0mph (why do they measure in these arcane units?).

Again in very blowy conditions. At one of the American "Messabout" weekends.

This is what Bill Giles one of the US stalwarts said

Quote:

Due to some business constraints I am unable to do justice to the Rend Lake messabout but had to make this post.

My brother, Kenny #212, and I arrived Friday night abotu 5 pm. We quickly bropped the boats (#2and #185) in the water. Conditions were exciting. Rend Lake runs south to north and the wind was blowing right up the lake at abotu 15 to 20. There was serious chop also.

During that sail Kenny clocked 7.8 miles per hour.

On Saturday the winds were even more serious. During the morning we sailed the width of the lake, about 2 miles, I will measure later. We covered 8 miles with average speed in the 4.6 range. Thats average 4.6. During the afternoon Kenny sailing #185 managed a max speed of 9.0 MPH! Conditions then were gust to 28-30.

Absolutely extreme. I can't imagine any more fun could be had at any price.

Sawdust and Spray!
Bill

Another of the PDR attendees broke some bits but added to the story - Dave Gray of Polysail International.

Quote:

Bill and Kenny Giles were definitely the stars of the weekend. The Giles brothers, who had sailed in similar conditions the week before at Lake Pepin, generally had the lake to themselves during most of Saturday with the masters of the other 29 boats that were there mostly on shore shaking their heads in wonder at the PDRacers seaworthiness.

John Nystrom of Peru, IN and I were out for brief sails in the rough conditions. John broke his leeboard, and I took enough water over the bow that I was having difficulty controlling my boat. I posted the few pictures I got on the photos section.

Dave Gray

Finally from one of the attendees who has no affiliations with PDRs - but was doing a report on the whole event Thomas Hamernik

Quote:

Thanks, Max, for the report. And, thank-you very much
for welcoming/hosting/cooking/serving and all the rest
that you do at this very nice event each year!

Your (peach) cobbler was delicious!

There was a nice range of craft this year. My
favorites include the B&B Yacht Designs (Graham
Byrnes) Core Sound 20 used in the Everglades
Challenge, a beautifully detailed Devlin Nancy's
China, Jim's AF4 (the subject of his current essays),
the many plywood double paddle canoes and kayaks, the
beautifully stiched skin-on-frame kayak and Chris
Feller's Michalak Philsboat.

Regarding the wind and the PD Racers - they did
amazingly well under the conditions. At times, I am
convinced there were three-foot waves, many crested
and some rolling breakers. Much of the time, there
were crested two-foot waves, and the PD Racers still
made progress to windward. Good sailors, and a
remarkably able craft.

TJH

One of the interesting things is that instead of one or two PDRs meeting up for a sail like last season ... it is now commonly 4 or 5 whenever people decide to go to an event or just have a sail together.

Best wishes
MIK

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik · #2 10th Jun 2008, 08:03 PM

Not that I would recommend anyone to be this crazy - but you can't keep those Yanks down!!!

There are two PDRacers (Correction threee) in the Texas 200 - a 200 mile low key RAID event up the coast of ... Texas.

Here is a shot of the course - ending at Magnolia beach - a place much favoured by the US home built wooden boat crowd.

For a better idea of why this is a good choice ... look at the barrier islands protecting the coast from anything really big and nasty (except for hurricanes maybe).

There is a chain of Google Earth Images that can whet the appetite and the imagination. The coast is mostly ranches meaning that it is pretty untouched and isolated.
http://www.texas200.com/images/route-kellan/index.htm

If they get a northerly wind - it will be a lot of work!!! But anything from the south, East or West it will be a very easy sail - except for the distance involved - that is a 40 mile a day average in laden boats.

Something like this would be great in OZ, but the Norwegians and Swedes got all the Fjiords and the USA got all the barrier islands - Texas, Florida, the ICW.

MIK

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

b.o.a.t. · #3 10th Jun 2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Something like this would be great in OZ, but the Norwegians and Swedes got all the Fjiords and the USA got all the barrier islands - Texas, Florida, the ICW.
MIK

Ever since I heard of these events, I have sometimes wondered about something like this in SA. Other than Moreton & Port Phillip Bays, we probably have the best coastline for small boat cruising in the south-east.

Maybe from the Port to Edithburg, overnighting at Pt Parham, Pt Wakefield, Ardrossan, Pt Vincent/Stansbury, & Edithburg.
Or the Spencer from Hardwicke Bay, Pt Vicky, Moonta, Wallaroo, Pt Broughton, Pt Pirie. Pt Augusta might be a bit big a stretch in anything but ideal conditions.

I don't know any of these towns well, so not sure of accommodations available. Have to pick the tide too, especially Pts Parham, Wakefield & Broughton.

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend, Murray Bridge, Mannum. Or the other way, depending upon which way the water is flowing....

Is this time for a new thread? Interest? Practicalities?

cheers
AJ

Boatmik · #4 10th Jun 2008, 11:39 PM

Look how much interest the Tinaroo Raid has produced.

We can start it as informally as they have - the closest thing is the Stansbury/Victor event. Problem with the Gulf is that there are not many places to scurry if the weather gets real bad.

Something like Micros and up would be able to hack it, but if a Southerly or other strong wind came through and hung round - I'd be a bit worried about sea conditions.

Let me look on Google Earth.

MIK

Daddles · #5 10th Jun 2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend,

You mean I'd have to fit my PDR with four wheel drive

Richard

b.o.a.t. · #6 11th Jun 2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Problem with the Gulf is that there are not many places to scurry if the weather gets real bad.

Something like Micros and up would be able to hack it, but if a Southerly or other strong wind came through and hung round - I'd be a bit worried about sea conditions.
MIK

True. You probably couldn't schedule it from day X to day Y. Probably have to be more like a 5-day block somewhere in a 2 week window. Not a good 'fit' with modern living... Also, I haven't seen the nothern gulf in a southerly blow (been crabbing at Middle Beach once - a good landing site at high tide...) Logically it would be lumpy, given wave fetch. On the other hand, BoM always forecasts lesser wind strength north of a line from "Brighton to Cowell" or "Brighton to Stansbury". Does one maybe tend to cancel the other?

I recall that James Michener notes in "Chesapeake", the eastern Chesapeake Bay fishermen rarely worried about being caught against a lee shhore. If it got bad, they just went with it & blew ashore on shelving sand. No rocky coasts to break up on. Looks like the gulf coast is similar, apart from mangroves from the Port up to about Light Beach.

Apart from the shelter aspect, the Google overheads look very similar to the Texas 200 course - arid, flat country abutting the sea. BYO drinking water.

b.o.a.t. · #7 11th Jun 2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddles

You mean I'd have to fit my PDR with four wheel drive

Richard

Fit beach trolley wheels & call it a land yacht.

Ducks are amphibious (sort-of). Why not also a PDR?
Anyway, you never know.... one day it might rain again.

AJ

dognest · #8 11th Jun 2008, 02:52 AM

Boatmik · #9 11th Jun 2008, 04:05 AM

TEXAS 200 - from Sandra at Duckworks
June 10, 2008
Yes, a little late--Chuck just called. I know, I know, I was supposed to put up Kellan's position last night, but this is a new thing, and I forgot. Here is the first one and I will post the second last:

Kellan's position:
Latitude:26.8854
Longitude97.4615
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:06/09/2008 17:23:42 (GMT)

Here is what else is going on: As of 10.30AM, Chuck and Mike are at the mouth of Baffin Bay, and most other boats are ahead of them.

The Miller family left the start late, and tried to make time with full sail, and capsized

(winds were gusting to 30).

The Martha Jane skipper, who also left late, found them and helped them get back upright and advised them to reef their sail, and they are okay, but still behind the rest of the group. The Martha Jane reached the first camp late yesterday evening.

Martin Adams--sailing his owner built catamaran, has not been seen since the start, and they are hoping to hear from him today.

(if those are just ply webs from the tramp to the hull I can't see what is preventing them from sheering off - can't see enough detail - mik)

There were 28 boats at the first camp--Graham Byrnes in the Southern Skimmer reached camp first around noon. He recorded a new top speed for him of 18 mph, which was helped slightly by a 1.5mph current in the land cut.

Chuck says everyone he has seen is happy and having fun. they are sailing fast, but when they catch up with Kellan (whose inflatable kayak is doing just fine), they will slow down and stay with him as they have most of his food and lunchtime is approaching. He said he will give me a longer report tonight--phone connection was spotty, lots of wind.

Here is Kellan's next position:
Kellan's position:
Latitude:27.1006
Longitude

97.442
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:06/09/2008 20:24:49 (GMT)

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

m2c1Iw · #10 11th Jun 2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

Ever since I heard of these events, I have sometimes wondered about something like this in SA. Other than Moreton & Port Phillip Bays, we probably have the best coastline for small boat cruising in the south-east.

Maybe from the Port to Edithburg, overnighting at Pt Parham, Pt Wakefield, Ardrossan, Pt Vincent/Stansbury, & Edithburg.
Or the Spencer from Hardwicke Bay, Pt Vicky, Moonta, Wallaroo, Pt Broughton, Pt Pirie. Pt Augusta might be a bit big a stretch in anything but ideal conditions.

I don't know any of these towns well, so not sure of accommodations available. Have to pick the tide too, especially Pts Parham, Wakefield & Broughton.

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend, Murray Bridge, Mannum. Or the other way, depending upon which way the water is flowing....

Is this time for a new thread? Interest? Practicalities?

cheers
AJ

Maybe the Ubeaut SA Squadron could hang off the Tripolis race Pt Pirie-Pt Augutta-Whyalla approx 100 miles held after Christmas and organised by the Pt Pirie Yacht Club. Think the poor little PD's would need a rest in the between a couple of legs. The Whyalla- Pt Pirie leg is 20 miles non stop. What do you reckon?

Mike

Boatmik · #11 11th Jun 2008, 11:57 AM

Texas200 from Jeremy on the PDR forum

Quote:

hey all,

Just got a call from Andrew (Linn - sailing a PDR). They had no cell coverage last night.

There are a total of 26 boats in the fleet. Things are going quite well.

Andrew's top speed today was 5.1 kno with an avg speed of 3.9 kno.

I asked how the ducks were holding up and he replied "Great! They're built like
tanks!"

He sounded tired but upbeat.

And from Jim Isbell

Quote:

I just got to the house from running the second leg of the 200 in
Coastrider. The three pdrs were at Hals cut last night and I have
pictures af all of them during todays leg. But Coastrider has
retired. Joe Garbut had to quit because of his wifes commitment to
Jury Duty. The owner of Coastrider didnt want to go on to Magnolia
beach so we removed my canoe from the cabin top and went home.

this is Jim Isbell's (the photographer of the later event photos) own Gulfstar 36 "Isabella"

We had a very interesting day with a rescue of Hobie Cat that was
with the group and had gotten grounded just before the end of the days
run. While getting them going the Coast Guard came up and boarded us
for an "inspection"...I really think they just wanted to look at the
boat as the inspection was rather cursory...especially after we
revealed that Joe was a retired Navy Master Chief.

Might not be this boat - there is a Hobie 18 as well

Anyway, If anyone is interested, I have several hundred pictures of
the various boats an anyone that wants a picture of their boat should
contact me with a description that I can use to recognize the boat and
I will email them a few pictures in 8 MByte resolution of their boat
underway. The only boat that I know I dont have a picture of ...he
was too fast...was the one from South Carolina, but since he builds
boats for others he must have many pictures of his creations. I have
pictures of all three PDRs.

I have asked about the pics.

Interesting that the homebuilt PDRs are not having problems but the Hobie has. Maybe it was just going too fast for them to avoid the shallows - looking at the water pics from Google Earth (link above) it looks like there are lots of shallow spots.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik · #12 11th Jun 2008, 09:35 PM

Texas200 from Sandra at Duckworks.

Quote:

June 10, 2008 -- update
Well! The group is safely ensconced at the Padre Island Yacht Club, courtesy of the group there. They have been variously ferried to Snoopy's for seafood and Scoopy's for ice cream, and they have had access to the showers and just generally been shown great generosity and charm. Thank you to all those who made them welcome!!!
I left my notes from earlier at home--Chuck read me off a list of all the boats in attendance, and I will list those in the morning. Wind has been their friend--speeding them down the Laguna Madre. I am also told that the Mikesboat is sailing wonderfully, and that Bill Moffitt and his son are fearless.

Bill Moffitt's boat six months ago.
Kellan's position:
Latitude:27.6008
Longitude

97.2496
Nearest Location: Flour Bluff, United States
Distance: 9 km(s)
Time:06/10/2008 21:10:27 (GMT)

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

coogzilla · #13 12th Jun 2008, 04:04 AM

G'day MIK
US folk's seem to like your boat design's Cool huh?

Regard's Coogs

Boatmik · #14 12th Jun 2008, 09:23 AM

Howdy Coogs,

I think they do - particularly the PDR, the Goat and the Eureka.

But none of the boats mentioned in the posts above are my designs - however over the past year I have been very active in the US PDRacer scene too. They are a remarkable bunch of experimenters and do lots of great and almost crazy things.

But over the same period I have seen their boats improve hand over fist - many have used OZ PDR ideas mixed in with their own thinking to ... "create hybrid vigour"

Sail areas are up almost 15 square feet from two years ago. Hulls have an average weight that is probably about 50lbs less, boats are better at recovering from capsize, the problems of hulls twisting and "oilcanning" have largely disappeared.

Their boats have improved their performance markedly as sail and mast design, centreboard and rudder design and hull structures have improved.

I'd still be betting the OZ is the quickest of the bunch by a long way in some conditions but as you can see from the stories above ... the PDR is quite a capable little boat (within reason) and can provide quite an adventure if one has a bit of imagination.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Boatmik · #15 12th Jun 2008, 10:07 PM

The saga of the PDRs and others doing the 200 mile longshore event along the texas coast.

Managed to get some photos from yesterday from Jim Isbell who retains copyright but is allowing use here - thanks Jim!

Texas 200 from Sandra at Duckworks

Quote:

June 11, 2008:

No reports this morning, but I am guessing everyone had a good night's sleep after a good meal the night before.

Here is at least a partial list of all the different boats--only a few names to go with them at this point:

1 Fugu (Kellan)
3 PD Racers
1 Potter 15
1 Bolger Bobcat (Chilek)
1 Piccup Pram
1 Chrysler Lone Star 16'
2 Potter 17's
2 Hobie 18's
1 20' sloop?
1 Coresound 17
1 John's Sharpie trimaran (Charlie and Laura)
Proa (Kevin O'Neill)
Boston Whaler sailboat
EC 22--Southern Skimmer, Graham Byrne
32' Motor trawler
1 Sea Pearl
the Caprice
Mikesboat
2 Shearwaters (by Bolger)
1 Princess 22
1 Coresound 19
1 Martha Jane (by Bolger)

Chuck says the fellow with the Martha Jane bought it on ebay 2 weeks ago! More boats will be joining them today and tomorrow. Our Ladybug, skippered by Roger Harlow and also Bob Shipman and Bob Williams will be coming in with one of Bob S's boats. The are heading through Corpus Christi Bay today and by more than one route will end up north of Rockport looking for a sandy spot to anchor for the night. They were going to stop at Dead Man's Island, but it is pretty exposed, so last night I looked on Google Earth and found a spot that might work, and they will check it out today.

No position from Kellan--too early--they will just be heading out.

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages