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  1. #16
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    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    837

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Howdy Clint,

    You have given 420 sailors a shock with the Goat - now you want to pick on Laser sailors with BETH.

    MIK

    (actually they will beat you around a course, but you will make them think on a couple of legs!
    I was rowing today back to the ramp in a nice 15 kts and the 420s came right up on me...it made me wish to have my Goat done, so I could leave then in my wake!

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Poland
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    67
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    805

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    Quote Originally Posted by Compass Project View Post
    Me too. Have I mentioned I'd love to have a Beth?
    Me too !!!

    I think - you need to build one (or more)!
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  4. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Poland
    Age
    67
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    805

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    Beth as a paddler ...
    Yes, she is a good paddler.

    My friend Lukasz who paddled her from tiny gulf of Dziekanowskie Lake for sailing was really surprised than he paddled her against a wind up to Force 4 wihout any problems (see attachement), and I like this her advantage too:
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  5. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
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    65
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    8,138

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    The top pic is the same as my paddling style - kneeling and steering with my bum.

    MIK

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Poland
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    67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    The top pic is the same as my paddling style - kneeling and steering with my bum.
    This is probably natural position - good for paddling, steering and skipper able to quick hiking...

    For Loire paddling she needs to remove a rudder ...:


    My friend Wojtek Baginski met a Brian who organize Loire Event next year and them visited Loire few days ago:
    Val de Loire, 9-10.10.2010 - a set on Flickr
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  7. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Displacement always confuses me too as I tend to think along the lines of a boat displacing its own weight in water. But its more complicated than that I think so I'm going to have to do some reading up on the subject, particularly as I'm scouting for a nice trailer sailor to build in 2/3 years time.

    For the 16/30 canoe, 16kg for the rig and 30kg for the hull seems quite feasible. It would go nicely with its name if it was!
    Still looking. So far I've got this:

    "Damned heavy!! I helped a guy launch his at the Gardener Small Boat Workshop at Mystic Seaport this past Spring. Fully rigged, it took a lot of huffing and puffing for the two of us to carry the thing down to the water. I don't know that it was 355lbs because I could never carry 178lbs by myself.( at least, I don't think I can) Also, it had to be held upright in the water until the sailor got on board to balance it with his weight. Once he got going, though, it looked pretty cool."


    So, definitely not as light as the Beth, with almost the same sail area.... Do you see where I'm going with this?

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,759

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    Hi Christophe

    The weird thing about the 16/30 sailing canoe is that the rule allows a maximum length of 18'! Minimum beam is still 30", but it can be more, in which case you are allowed to carry more sail area.

    There are other rules that relate to max beam at waterline, minimum depth amidships and maximum sail area as a multiplier of its beam.

    As for weight, the "minimum weight in pounds, exclusive of centreboard, rudder, steering gear, and deck seat, shall be not less than length in inches multiplied by beam in inches, divided by 60."

    So for a 16 footer with 30" beam, that's 96 lb (43.5kg). Certainly no lightweight particularly when you consider the added weight of the centreboard, rudder, steering gear, and deck seat!

    (See page 44, WB #214)

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    960

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    I didn't get 214, so far WB has missed two issues this year. I'm not going to renew a subscription that misses 1/3 of the deliveries! I've placed a "missing issue" request for it, so I'm waiting patiently. I've got 215, which is part II, and the Small Boats issue.

  10. #24
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    I didn't realise the 16/30 was designed to a algebraic rule.

    These are great because there is always some weird little corner which produces a silly boat, but one which will beat the others. It's probably lucky there are not enough of them to have real racing.

    Interesting they are so heavy. Most of the pics I have seen have shown a lot of carbon. But much heavier than a plywood boat like BETH.

    Looks like it is not a rule problem, but a lot of badly designed carbon or timber stuff.

    Best wishes
    Michael

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

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    Bruce--

    From: 16-30 Canoe, weight

    I haven't weighed mine, but I'd guess it comes in around 125-150. I can lift it by myself, but it ain't easy... As I recall, the displacement weight given includes all of the rig parts and the sailor.

    __________
    Daniel Miller
    Curator, Antique Boat Museum
    16/30 DragonFly



  12. #26
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    69
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    Sounds like it's a lot over the minimum rule weight. As MIK says, a lot of badly designed structure. The plywood version on the WB project should be much lighter. Amazing that it takes 7 sheets to build (5x6mm and 2x3mm).

    Did you know you can download digital back issues of WB for only $3.50? Part 1 of the 16/30 article has the material list, plans an the table of offsets. This issue also has the article on how to build tapered wooden hollow masts (not birdsmouth).

    WoodenBoat 211-Current : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Sounds like it's a lot over the minimum rule weight. As MIK says, a lot of badly designed structure. The plywood version on the WB project should be much lighter. Amazing that it takes 7 sheets to build (5x6mm and 2x3mm).

    Did you know you can download digital back issues of WB for only $3.50? Part 1 of the 16/30 article has the material list, plans an the table of offsets. This issue also has the article on how to build tapered wooden hollow masts (not birdsmouth).

    WoodenBoat 211-Current : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce
    I think that the weight he is quoting is from a plywood version of the 16/30 fleet their trying to put together here in North America. I'll ask to confirm.

    I already paid for my subscription, I'm not going to pay them again for something they didn't deliver in the first place! I'll get my replacement issue at some point. In the meantime...

  14. #28
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    Also, I haven't seen the whole article so I'm not going to judge on good/bad construction, it could be good construction, but it has all the stuff like the sliding board and all the extra bits that Mik tends to avoid-- like the self-bailing cockpit with raised floor, the sliding board and all the extra structure, the extra re-enforcement for the masts, etc. All these points are illustrated in Mik's "blue box" at the bottom of the plan description for Beth. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/storer/beth/index.htm
    Last edited by callsign222; 1st November 2010 at 08:35 AM. Reason: clarity

  15. #29
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
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    960

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    Bruce,

    Originally Posted by callsign222 Thank you Dan. I'm assuming this is a new 16/30 built from plywood and John Summer's build and plans?


    Yes, one of four built at the Antique Boat Museum (before I started working there).

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
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    65
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