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  1. #1
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    Default Quick Canoe - "Disposable" Canoeing - very simple ply canoe - building pics

    Concise info about the boat and plan is available here - info for the plywood Quick Canoe

    Well, I have been having a big think.

    One of the byproducts of the trip to the USA was that I now know that distance canoeing and kayaking is waaaay more fun than I thought.

    I sortof imagined it would be tedious compared to sailing. And it kinda is, but your mind adapts and you are off and going very nicely indeed. The thing I liked was just setting the mind to the task and keeping going, particularly when there are headwinds.

    I also liked the independence of camping and the days of having to carry lots of water are over with the gravity filters available these days.


    A big bag of chips is essential.


    You do need a better tent than this one!


    What's with this. I was paddling forward but still going backwards?

    Full set of paddling a canoe on Lake Powell, Utah. Part of the Colorado River.

    But back to reality ...

    Because my income is so little I have pared things to the bone. I find cheap places to rent, have very few belongings and certainly don't have a car. I remember doing the calcs about 15 years back and finding that a car would cost me an extra $70/week if everything was counted. I doubt it is any cheaper now.

    So how do I mix my interest in canoe touring and nice boats with not having a car?

    So I started to think in terms of disposable boats. Building really cheap and fast from the cheapest materials available. Either buying them on location at the start or having them shipped there - maybe with bits cut out in advance.

    Assembling the boat over a day or so, quick coat of paint, load it up and head off. Up the Murray Darling or any other of the river systems in OZ

    At the end the boat just gets given away. It could even work as a group thing.

    But how does this influence the design?

    We all know that even a little classic canoe like Rushton's Wee Lassie will outperform and out handle many of the fibreglass production canoes. When the wind and waves come up it goes straight and true, rather than wandering about like a GRP bathtub.

    The difference is chalk and cheese. The reason is the hollow in the ends of the wee lassie - which provides a fin at the front and back of the boat. Forget about trying to make a boat track with an inch deep keelson - it is these fins, appropriately placed at the ends of the boat where they have real grip that do the work. A fin at the front and a fin at the back.


    Balsa Canoe Article - Wee Lassie 12lbs (5.5kg)

    The classic shapes are gorgeous. And most quick build canoes are like boxes which handle about as well as the fibreglass canoes.

    So I wondered ... how can the basic simple shape be played with. I had this idea while talking to Andrew Linn when I was in Oregon looking at lakes and rivers.


    Clear lake in Oregon - it is about 12 ft deep here.

    So ... the though came ... why not have a fin at the back AND the front to make up the side view of a regular canadian canoe. It won't be as sweet as the real thing, but it will possibly handle rougher water better than a pure flat bottomed thing.

    The other thing that went into the pot - actually the thing that really started the pot were the free boat plans for the "Peace Canoe" that Woodenboat supplied for free to get people started in building boats. I was gobsmacked to see that it came out of 5 sheets of plywood and weighs in at over 100 pounds if built of quality ply. Chine bLog Initial performance thoughts on the Peace Canoe

    So this is the idea ...



    Not many pieces and the final shapes are worked out already - IT FITS ON THE SHEETS!!! Dimensions are worked out. Am currently working out how to get as much of the boat together in as few sessions as possible. I don't think it will be quite possible to put the boat together in one day and paddle the next

    Will it have good directional stability in rough conditions? I do imagine it will be more bouncy in those conditions than a proper canoe but it will have more directionally stable than the normal flat bottomed boat.

    Will it paddle well? It does have more wetted surface than the Eureka, but I have sqeezed the bottom panel to be quite narrow at the ends. The stability at small angles of heel is about 30% greater than the Eureka. I was tempted to make it a lot skinner to reduce the wetted area - that might be a worthwhile way to go for a second boat. But the more conservative one is good for a trial.

    What will it look like? It will be kinda cute from some angles and I expect it will look strange from others. I did take the sheer curve and widths from the Eureka, so this should look fine.

    It is a bit shorter than the Eureka but will come out of three sheets of imperial sized ply. Maybe around the 60lb (27kg) mark out of a not too heavy species of cheap 6mm (1/4") ply.

    I am working on a smaller solo boat to come out of two sheets. Looks like the length target for that one is a little longer than the Wee Lassie at 11.5ft and probably the weight will be around 45lbs (19kg)

    And what do you do at the end of your trip? Just give it away or see if someone will store it for you until the next part of the trip.

    MIK
    Last edited by Boatmik; 22nd Jun 2010 at 03:10 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post

    And what do you do at the end of your trip? Just give it away or see if someone will store it for you until the next part of the trip.

    MIK
    Hi Mick

    Hence the Storer name

    You’re talking about a canoe here but keep in mind a similar concept for a “disposable” kayak/sea kayak as well...maybe J

    Your canoe has all the elements for a quick and simple build. My only suggestion is to consider metric ply plans as well. Here in Oz, imperial sizes generally mean more cost and less availability as you are buying imported stuff, which is an extra complication for local builders. Lots of merchants like the Mr Ply and Woods only sell metric, ie. Hoop and Meranti marine plys, so builders here are forced to go to more expensive specialist outlets. Just a thought.

    Another thought is get yourself one of these old Merc diesels, otherwise known as a Beirut Taxi because its mechanicals are bullet proof and engineered in another era. For not much money for the car nowadays, your fuel bills can then be a thing of the past as you can get all the fuel you need for free from fish and chip shops.J


    Details from my blog here: OZTayls-Converting a W123 Mercedes to to run on vegetable oil

    However, I've since sold this one and acquired a later model W124 diesel which does the same thing but with even less complication because clever Mercedes engineers must have thought that somebody like me in the future would want to run the thing on unmodified cottonseed cooking oil and had some of the bits designed in already. Parts are cheap as chips too.

  4. #3
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    I'm glad you can still get oil from shops, there are far too many people trying that on nowdays up here, you don't get a look in.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong. Me.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by damian View Post
    I'm glad you can still get oil from shops, there are far too many people trying that on nowdays up here, you don't get a look in.
    I've heard that in some places it's like that. Here in Newie I get phone calls from restaurants all over town, but I have to knock them back. I only need 80 litres a week!

  6. #5
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    Nice concept.

    The sailing canoes of the 1870's were very firm bilged, as are Solway Dory sailing canoes today. So perhaps she might carry a nice little sprit rig as we. Make the sail at home, bring it with you, make simple spars and steer with a paddle. Kept down to around 30 sq ft would be a nice aid and easily dropped for "windward" work.

    It would be great also to somehow keep epoxy costs out of it. Far more expensive than the ply. Need to search industrial building tapes, gaffer tapes and such.

    Tie together with fishing line and leave in place?

    Leave untreated in any way I guess. Perhaps a garden fence treatment?

    Re - your other thread of a different Raid. How much more fun to turn up with no boat, make a boat, paddle down a river / lake whatever and then donate to local Scout / youth group or something.

    You know, not that much different from the Duck Punts.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zk_1k6hInM"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

    Brian

  7. #6
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    Hi Mik, disposable canoing doesn't go with maxims like "leave nothing but your footprints behind" and probably collides with some environmental laws. And if I had to rely on my boat - lets imagine some rapids or some wake at the beach - I prefer the well engineered and constructed one. In a play setting or - other end of the street - in a survival situation some quick and dirty is o.k. or needed. But for a planned trip I would go with a proved folding canoe or kayak. Simple and clever boatbuilding - thats completely different. And a simplified Wee Lassie with comparable performance would be great. But's hard to beat some SOF constructions there. My2ct - Jörn

  8. #7
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    Howdy Jörn,

    That's why I put the "" around the disposable. The idea is that a boat that works will be used in the right hands and will have some value to them.

    If someone wants something nice they can build the Eureka after all. But I had the idea about traditional boats having a "fin at the front and a fin at the back" are realised that there was a way of doing this with a very simple box boat.

    It was something I spent a lot of time trying to make happen with the Eureka too when I originally drew it up.

    I think it is an interesting idea.

    I doubt the box version will have similar performance to the original Wee Lassie - it is an absolutely astounding boat. There is a carbon one on the net too - and it has all the hollow in the picture above filled in - people are not really good at studying boats and why they work.

    Best wishes
    MIK

    Just added the black fibre wee lassie that loses the hollow for quite a boxy entry/exit.

  9. #8
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    G'day Michael,

    I really like the idea of the 'disposable' canoe. I have an itch for one last solo adventure (my family keeps saying that they'll come too ) and a trip down a river somewhere in Asia is one possibility. I was thinking of an inflatable but that might cause problems with overweight luggage. Being able to make a boat simply out of local materials (assuming exterior grade plywood is available) is an attractive concept as is the idea of giving it away at the end of the trip.

    I can attest to the effectiveness of the hollows in the ends of the Wee Lassie. The tupperware sit-on-top in my avatar has similar shapes and tracks as though it's on rails despite having considerable rocker. I apologise for lowering the tone of the forum by mentioning a plastic boat but I hope the fact that the Greenland paddle is carved from a beautiful piece of straight-grained WRC and finished with pure Tung oil will restore my credibility .

    cheers,
    clay
    "The best boats are either small enough to carry home, or big enough to live on." Phillip C. Bolger (1927-2009)

  10. #9
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    Sitting all day waiting for the Sheffield Shield cricket match between NSW and Vic to start (unfortunately it was rained out), I got to thinking about this "disposable" concept of Mick's. (Oh dear, thinking can be dangerous in my case, )

    It might be easier when travelling to acquire cheap framing timber and use a fabric or some other skin. However, I'm not thinking in terms of a doped fabric, although this need not necessarily be ruled out. What I'm thinking about is that strong, clear flexible plastic sheeting like the one I used for the windows of my daughter's cubby house many years ago. It's kind of like a thicker X-Ray film. Those clear windows are still as good today as they were when built, so it has good external stability, even though this is not important for Mick's concept. Many hardware stores and some like Clark Rubber have it and it's not expensive.

    The beauty about the plastic film skin is that it will easily mold to a shape and gaffa tape sticks to it like crazy, so I imagine that a nice, strong and waterproof skin could be made from it. I mentioned X-Ray film. As a second choice, and certainly cheaper if they can be procured, old X-Ray films could be overlapped and taped together, even double skinned on the bottom? I wonder if old ones are available at hospitals? I have a radiologist friend so I could ask. How funky would that look!

  11. #10
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    This thread is very close to Tom Yosts work in some ways.

    Yostwerks Kayak Building Manuals - Homebuilt kayaks by Thomas Yost

    wood frame clear film, inflatable, and a new hybrid inflatable-mininal frame design. Perhaps some ideas might be gleaned?



    Brian

  12. #11
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    Could I ask MIK,

    what the technical choices on this design are between:

    1) flat bottom, vertical sides

    2) narrow bottom, sloping sides

    Brian

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    So this is the idea ...


    Recently I've seen a similar a bit idea there:



    JEM Watercraft - Canoe Plans, Kayak Plans, other Boat Plans

    JEM Watercraft • View topic - Prototyping a Sit On Top Canoe

    Canoes similar each other are...
    Aloha!
    Robert Hoffman
    http://robhosailor.blogspot.com/


  14. #13
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    Howdy Robert,

    I think if you look carefully you will find that the fin at the bow and the fin at the stern is either a new idea or one that has been forgotten for a while or nobody has publicised it well

    (I think that covers all the explanations about why I haven't seen it!)

    The Jem is also a multi panel boat - five like the Eureka, so will be as much effort to make and its appearance is nothing special.

    Here I am looking at how to make a really simple box boat less bad. I am making no apologies for the crude shape and the compromises it makes in paddling, but I think the fins are a start toward making such a boat better.

    I am looking to improving the paddling characteristics by refining it once I have a handle on how it goes and feels in the water.

    Rick Landreville in Canada will be building the first of the big ones - and then breaking some ice to go for a paddle! If the stability is fine then I will play with the hull some more. I can see some interesting possibilities to improve the general paddling - particularly reducing drag of the boxy hull.

    Best wishes
    MIK

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter View Post
    Could I ask MIK,

    what the technical choices on this design are between:

    1) flat bottom, vertical sides

    2) narrow bottom, sloping sides

    Brian
    Howdy Brian,

    1/ gives you simpler construction, but probably too much wetted surface because the width of the bottom is closely defined by the dimensions of the upper part of the canoe that has to match people and their ergonomics. I think a narrow bottom could work for a boat you sit down inside, but with a canoe a very narrow overall hull width would feel a bit weird I think. I did think about that option.

    It is a bit easier to build with wood in the corners because no bevels are required. But bevels I guess are pretty easy the way they happen in storer boats. Just plane everything flat to accept the bottom. More like the Goat or PDR than the Eureka.

    2/ The big advantage of decoupling the sheer shape from the bottom is that you can make a whole lot of aesthetic choices. For example I have almost stolen the sheer widths and curves of the Eureka for the ezCanoe15 (?) so from some angles it will look pretty sweet. I think it will have a finer entry than the carbon wee lassie above!

    Also allows much more playing with the entry, wetted surface and prismatic coefficient.

    While I do like box boats I think a box canoe would be nondescript in appearance and handling. I am still flipping between epoxy filleting and putting wood in the corners. Maybe I will leave it up to individual builders after making some suggestions.

    Best wishes
    MIK

  16. #15
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    Mik,

    Cool idea.

    What size individual could this canoe safely accommodate?

    While I realize big people canoe and kayak, when I weighed 260 pounds, I was always concerned about stability - and, me being me, convinced myself I was "too big" to canoe.

    Fast forward to today - I'm now under 200 pounds and wondering about a canoe design. Something quick and easy would suit - I saw 1/4" "Sanded one side hardwood ply" for $20 a sheet today. A canoe coming out of $60 worth of ply would be a bargain - but only if it can accommodate my bulk. ( I know there would be other costs but it wouldn't drive the cost up by much.)

    So is this design something I ought to be considering? Thanks.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

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