Thread: Quick Canoe - "Disposable" Canoeing - very simple ply canoe - building pics

The bottom runner is mentioned in the timber list as being 19 x 32, put in place after the fins at the front and back have been done.

Covered already chaps. Like you I decided to make it too big as it can always be planed down!

Have to be careful of ones back with paddle steered boats. I had one customer do quite a mischief to his because of the weird twisty thing that happens. It did turn out he had an underlying condition ... but nice if underlying conditions are undiscovered!

MIK

MIK

Howdy, Big problem with multihull conversions is that amount of extra load they put on the rig. With something line a "Duct Punt" the crew might be out around the gunwale, probably no more than say a couple of feet away from the centre of lateral buoyancy.

So Righting moment is 1.5ft x 200lbs.

But if you do an outrigger ... I think the displacement of my outriggers is about 140 lbs but they are 4 feet from the centreline
Righting moment is the order of 4ft x 150lbs.

the maximum stress for the mast and rigging is proportional to the righting moment. So the mast has to take double the load.

MIK

Thought you might like to see a couple of pictures from 1838 scenes of Duck Punts at Keyhaven.



Not sure if you will be able to read what they bagged that day

19 wild swan, 310 Brent Geese, and 220 widgeon. Unbelievable!!



note how he sculls with his right hand.

Brian

Hi All,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I have been catching up on the new threads this morning, as I was away from the Internets for the last week and a half or so, but I'm really excited about this thread! If it is good on the water it would make an ideal first boat for a lot of people.

MIK I've been reading the J.E Gordon Materials book and it is fantastic! Thanks for the recommendation.

Now to the point, to keep with the initial parameters of this boat, it has to be fairly robust, but also easy to build out of common construction materials. Epoxy would be best for internal fillets, but some more pedestrian alternatives would be nice to have available too. I like the idea of PL Premium, or Sikaflex, but if they are thick they take a while to dry, and while they are stronger than anyone's business when gluing two surfaces, as a fillet i cant imagine they are ideal. What if one were to do an internal taped seam with burlap (available at most hardware, gardening, stores or scrounged from gunny sacks and the like) and Polyurethane construction adhesive?

I'm going to do some destructive tests when i get back to my shop in a few days, but i would imagine this to be a robust, slightly flexible, and tenacious waterproof joint. Cheap and quick too, albeit a bit ugly. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Al

Originally Posted by alzuger

I like the idea of PL Premium, or Sikaflex, but if they are thick they take a while to dry, and while they are stronger than anyone's business when gluing two surfaces, as a fillet i cant imagine they are ideal. What if one were to do an internal taped seam with burlap (available at most hardware, gardening, stores or scrounged from gunny sacks and the like) and Polyurethane construction adhesive? I'm going to do some destructive tests when i get back to my shop in a few days, but i would imagine this to be a robust, slightly flexible, and tenacious waterproof joint. Cheap and quick too, albeit a bit ugly. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Al

The problem with PL Premium, is that it tends to bubble up as it cures, and ugly doesn't begin to describe how unsightly it is...The problem is compounded when the PL is trowelled or spread thin. As far as a burlap binder goes, the Puddleduck crowd has done some testing with fiberglass drywall tape and PL with positive results, other that how ugly it looks. Fiber drywall tape is available at any home improvement store, and is really inexpensive. Maybe try some with your other destructive tests and you may be impressed.

Rick.

OK... I'll play along with this latest brainstorm. Here's a couple of quick thoughts - -

How about QuikCanoe? "Fastest canoe build on the planet!"

ZipCanoe? "Zip - it's ready to paddle"

Compostable Canoe? "Build it fast, leave it behind to biodegrade when you're done"

BlitzCanoe? "Quick construction. Overwhelming fun"

Duct-Ezy Canoe - say it a few times before deciding.....

Duct-Ezy Punt

Think I like Duct Punt best


Brian

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Thought you might like to see a couple of pictures from 1838 scenes of Duck Punts at Keyhaven.



Not sure if you will be able to read what they bagged that day

19 wild swan, 310 Brent Geese, and 220 widgeon. Unbelievable!!



note how he sculls with his right hand.

Brian

And prepares to fire the cannon filled with black powder, shot, copper nails, bits of barbed wire and crockery and pebbles with his left.

Those birds must have been interesting to eat!

Some of the cannons had a huge bore too.

To this day the call that something dangerous might be heading toward you at high velocity is "Duck"

MIK

Originally Posted by alzuger

Hi All,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I have been catching up on the new threads this morning, as I was away from the Internets for the last week and a half or so, but I'm really excited about this thread! If it is good on the water it would make an ideal first boat for a lot of people.

MIK I've been reading the J.E Gordon Materials book and it is fantastic! Thanks for the recommendation.

The New Science of Strong Materials or why you don't fall through the floor - JE Gordon - is a real classic and will be the best thing a materials minded person will read in his or her life.

I can see where the following thinking is coming from Al. For those who haven't read the book it talks solidly about the theory but is inspiringly lateral in its practical examples. For example glue needs three properties ... it needs to be able to wet both surfaces, it needs to harden and needs to transfer load between the two. Frozen water meets teh first to criteria ... but not the third, but you can fix that by adding paper pulp.

EXACTLY the same mechanism as we use adding glue fortifiers to epoxy. And no ... paper pulp will not be good for epoxy - unless it is very fine.

Now to the point, to keep with the initial parameters of this boat, it has to be fairly robust, but also easy to build out of common construction materials. Epoxy would be best for internal fillets, but some more pedestrian alternatives would be nice to have available too. I like the idea of PL Premium, or Sikaflex, but if they are thick they take a while to dry, and while they are stronger than anyone's business when gluing two surfaces, as a fillet i cant imagine they are ideal. What if one were to do an internal taped seam with burlap (available at most hardware, gardening, stores or scrounged from gunny sacks and the like) and Polyurethane construction adhesive?

My approach with the plans will be to stick with what is truly reliable and simple ... in other words epoxy. However I will mention polyester resin as a lower cost, weaker and higher maintenance option.

After all the boats have to work. However I am really happy to see discussion and experiments for alternatives - the PDRacers do it all the time and it would be a hoot to have lots of this type of stuff happening.

Two things though .. use regular and correctly sized epoxy joints as the standard. You can identify the relative strength by the mode of failure without having to measure loads in some way. For example in small sized ply, correct fillets will mean the ply breaks off outside the joint leaving all the gluing surfaces completely intact. Bigger ply has a more complex failure mode which means that you have to measure.

The second is don't make just one test piece. Make a big one and cut it into 2" sections and test them individually.

I'm going to do some destructive tests when i get back to my shop in a few days, but i would imagine this to be a robust, slightly flexible, and tenacious waterproof joint. Cheap and quick too, albeit a bit ugly. Just a thought.

The plans will stick to glass tape on the outside and as an inside option ... because I can tell people where to get it!

Where to get

There have been boats built with calico or (cough, cough, pass me some Tim Tams) hemp or other cloth and like all experimenters they say it is "fantastic" but they never test it against a standard.

As an example .... from the Hemp surfboard people ... breathlessly (I jsut happened on this and it is too delicious to pass up ... not criticising experimenting at all, just that it be careful and considered ... like Al Zuger or JE Gordon!)

Hemp cloth is akin to organic carbon fiber.

The strongest natural fiber on Earth it has long been implemented into human culture as a "super resource."

Free hemp for the people meant the ability to grow and manufacture everything needed to live as food, fuel, fiber, and more.

Free hemp in this day and age means the ability to Shift to a sustainable renewable resource-based economy.

Technology will aid us in replacing all petroleum-based products with those made from hemp and other renewable materials.

Why the surfboard industry has not taken the next step and developed specific products and techniques for manufacturing shaped surfboards with hemp cloth *(and other sustainable products) says something about the irony of our sport.

"Do we want to sacrifice profit for ethics?" or "Do we want to sacrifice ethics (i.e. sustainability) for profit?"

how about performance?!
The only way to achieve sustainability is if everyone sacrifices a little bit of artificial luxury and a little bit of stubbornness and starts walkin the talk...

*for questions about performance please see the team and videos on youtube kaimanu hemp surfboards

Get Psyched!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Support Hemp Buy-Products!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, right, give us a call when they win a string of world championships!

Best wishes

Michael.

Okay, I finished the canoe today. (well, everything except painting it). I have a total of 4 hours and 25 minutes of build time, and anticipate another 4-5 hours to sand, prep and paint it. But this is the dilemma; Do I just prime it and give it one finish coat, and not sand anything at all (keeping in tune with the 'quick and dirty' build)? Or do I spend a couple of days on it and varnish it up to a yacht finish? I tend to use my boats hard, and often. A yacht finish looks as crappy as a second rate job after a month or so...
Rick.

Rick -

Dang, under 5 hours of build time! Incredible!

For what it is worth, I'd go with primer and a single finish coat. No point in spending the time for a yacht finish if it's going to be beat up in a short time.

For a real quick approach, Thompson's Waterseal. One coat splashed on and you're done. Can be tinted too and has good UV protection.

Total Wood Protection - Waterproofers - Products - ThompsonsWaterSeal.com

Howdy,

Prime adequately then one coat of paint and go paddling.

See how it goes.

If it works acceptably - remember the least bad simple canoe is the aim - then paint it nicely. After all we are going to need some pics of a boat that looks nice from a few yards away and also is good enough for some detail shots.

Hey ... where is the pic of those clever knees you worked out?

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy,

Hey ... where is the pic of those clever knees you worked out?

MIK

Here are a couple of pics, but I don't seem to have a nice shot of how I did the knees.
I'll take a few more pics in the morning.

Rick.