The Quick Canoe Thread: Boats, advice, tips. Add your own!

[asg]

Hi Crawford,

Last year I also built a QC. I'm 6'2" with long legs so like you I built it from the plans and ignored the bit about lowering the seats by 50mm. My wife and I first took it out on the water in December, and the stability wasn't so much "quite tender balance wise", but more like "absolutely bloody terrifying". Sitting in the thing was like balancing on a tightrope - the slightest movement made the canoe feel like it was just going to tip right over. Our first paddle lasted less than 30 seconds (as long as it took to paddle straight back to shore).

We then took it for a short paddle sitting on the floor instead of the seats and it was perfectly stable. But it was awkward holding the paddles over the reasonable high sides.

So I was faced with the same problem as you - how to lower seats that had already been glued into place without making a complete mess of it. I went to the big hardware shop to see what there was I could use and came away with some punched steel strap about 1mm thick x50mm wide, some matching L-brackets, screws and high tensile 5mm bolts. I cut the seats out with an ordinary handsaw, cut and bent the straps, screwed the L-brackets to the bottom of the seat frame, bolted the brackets to the straps and screwed the straps to the top of the seat supports.

Hopefully a picture will follow that might give you some idea of what I did:



This approach had several advantages: it's not hard to adjust the seat height and it's easy to remove the seats (makes cleaning much easier). I have put the seats on their lowest possible setting (about 115mm below their original height).

The result? It is far more stable but still comfortable to paddle.

The difficult thing to explain is that it can still seem quite "tippy". With only one person in the canoe there is no problem. Put two people in the canoe and it only takes a slight movement by one person to tip the canoe by several degrees - just enough to make the other person want to grab onto something for support. But then you can slide right over to the side of the seat and it doesn't tip much further. So it's not unstable in the sense that it would easily capsize but there is still a strong initial feeling of unsteadiness.

My wife, who once went with me on a 4-day trip on the Murray in rented canoes, hates the QC and refuses to get in it because "it's too tippy". My son has taken his girlfriend out in the QC and she says much the same thing.

I'm sure there will be many canoeists out there who won't see any problem with the unsteadiness I've described, but if I can't get my wife into the QC then I probably won't get much use out of it. That would be a shame because it was such a pleasure building it.


Andrew

[Clinton1]

hates the QC and refuses to get in it because "it's too tippy".

There is a 'secondary balance'... e.g. it tips a bit and then goes stable again when the side digs into the water a bit. I find it quite stable... sure it tips a bit if you are not sitting still or 'counter leaning' to waves or whatnot, but it is quite stable. I'm happy enough to stand up and use it like a 'stand up paddle board' and just balance it through minor adjustments with my ankles.

Personal preference and personal comfort level are very important. Maybe you could see if your lady prefers sitting on a little bit of foam padding on the bottom of the canoe, and add a back strap support.

[MichaelB]

A spouse or any other paddling partner that has a reason to hate the boat trumps any of my considerations.

I do hope they come around to the lowered seats Andrew.

[MichaelB]

Awi Zome! has a home hoisted up high in the shed. Alas, Version 0.1 didn't meet spec and the canoe fell, collecting some damage by hitting the bench on the way down.

Buger, as the French might say.

The outer veneer of the plywood seems to have torn away. Current plan to repair is to cut away the damaged ply and outer fibreglass, apply filler in the void to restore the profile, then cover with glass cloth, wrapping the cloth around the stem and over the chine, inwards to the keel and 50mm down from the chine. If I put in a short length of epoxy fillet running back from the step along the join of hull and keel batten then that will add strength as well as providing a smooth curve for the cloth to run a little up the batten.

Sound like a plan? Suggestions for improvement?

[callsign222]

My QC is more stable by myself than with 2 people. Everything is to plans except the seats are about 2.5cm higher. The boat is as stable as I would imagine it should be solo, but with two it gets twitchy. Is that a seat thing?

Also, I used "sureply" which is vinyl flooring underlayment, and it bulges upward with two people in the boat-- don't know if that happens with other plywood types-- so it's concave from underneath, like it's riding on rails. The center of the floor doesn't come up much, about an inch, maybe less. Would this affect the stability?

[Cliff Rogers]

I put my seats almost 40mm lower & it is very good with 2 people in it.

We used 4mm ply & the floor does bulge upwards.

To counter this I fitted a strut under the seats that is in line with the keel, it will get a test run the weekend after next.

[Cliff Rogers]

Mine is due for another coat of paint so I'll get some photos of it & the strut & post them in a couple of weeks.

[callsign222]

Cliff, let me know how the strut works out-- is it attached to the center spreader?

[callsign222]

Cliff,

I'm also very tall with a bad back, so tall seats are important. They are not that high, just a little higher to help me out. Additionally, I'm quite used to canoes-- to tippiness isn't a problem, but with my wife it will make it a little easier, wondering if it's worth it to drop the seats...

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff, let me know how the strut works out-- is it attached to the center spreader?

Nope, didn't put one there yet, going to see what happens with them under the seats first.

[Mezix]

For me it is not a question any more. I had a tour on a nice channel 60kms south of Budapest (here) close to our little weekend-house. 3 + 1 were sitting in the boat and it went OK, we tested the stability and other performance elements.
Attachment 173345 Attachment 173346

My first built Eureka was there as well:
Attachment 173347

I am thinking of moving the back seat a bit backwards and the front seat a bit forward, replacing the centre spreader with two spreaders fore and aft and fitting in a third seat in the middle.

[Cliff Rogers]

Looks good.

......I am thinking of moving the back seat a bit backwards and the front seat a bit forward, replacing the centre spreader with two spreaders fore and aft and fitting in a third seat in the middle.

Now that the boat is built you can take the measurements & angles easily.

[BobWes]

Really nice photos, Mezix! Great looking canoes.

[JJMc]

When I saw the seats on the plans I was sure they were higher than I wanted. I've canoed quite a bit, so will set mine lower. Also "widened" them (more fore/aft area) to allow for webbing or cord seating area rather than hard ply. Since they are wider, I'm thinking of splitting the seat supports so they don't distort the curve of the sides. How do the standard seat supports look on the completed boats? Did anyone shape the glue face with some curve?

Thanks everyone who's posted their experiences and pictures. Did anyone have trouble with the duct tape method?

Jerry

[JJMc]

My QC is more stable by myself than with 2 people. Everything is to plans except the seats are about 2.5cm higher. The boat is as stable as I would imagine it should be solo, but with two it gets twitchy. Is that a seat thing?

Also, I used "sureply" which is vinyl flooring underlayment, and it bulges upward with two people in the boat-- don't know if that happens with other plywood types-- so it's concave from underneath, like it's riding on rails. The center of the floor doesn't come up much, about an inch, maybe less. Would this affect the stability?

Stability: it's partly a seat thing (I'm going to lower mine below plan height) and partly a canoe thing. The more paddling with two you do, the more stable you become. I spent a month paddling in the Boundary Waters of northern Minnesota, and after a few weeks, there was simply no way we could flip that canoe. We had become one with the boat...

Oilcanning: my cedar strip canoe flexes in the middle also, don't know if it's an inch, but it's common in large canoes.

Jerry