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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

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    Oh man, now I gotta learn how to sew too...

    I'm going to try Mik's full-length batten reefing thing that I have on my Duckworks sail, but if I find that I want additional tie-downs, I thought this might be the least impact way to go.

    If I'm going to sew, I might as well just sew on a couple actual tiedowns and eliminate holes in my sail altogether.

    I'm jumping the gun anyway, boat's not in the water yet.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkirtley View Post
    For the little bit of sewing, I would not even take the chance. It is too easy to sew on a bit of patching and the grommets will hold better anyway.
    Good point. In some senses it is a weakness in the sail when you knock one of those toothed or not toothed ferrules in - the sail will be tougher with a patch there.

    MIK

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Wasn't sure where to put this as there are any number of threads it could go… But I picked this one!

    While at the sailboat shop today buying line and a couple of blocks I had a good show-and-tell discussion with the proprietor about the GIS. The proprietor sails catamarans and seemed knowledgeable about sailing and rigging. She was very interested in the GIS and the balance lug rig. When I described what I was looking for in a downhaul, she looked at the sail plan and thought for a moment before asking how the sail is built. She understood the luff needs to be highly tensioned and asked if the luff has a rope or wire or anything other than reinforcing tape. She wondered whether heavy downhaul would, over time, stretch and distort the luff - and affect sail shape and performance. Her thought was to possibly add a Dyneema luff rope/wire to take the tension. I don't know.

    My SailRite kit provides for two doubled layers of reinforcing tape on the luff. Good enough to withstand the downhaul tension? Or is the idea of Dyneema luff rope something to consider? I'm not quire sure how it would be installed but that can be sorted out if need be.

    I don't recall this particular detail described or discussed so I figured I'd ask. Good, bad or ugly idea?

    Thanks.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,759

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    Hi Bob

    You probably recall that I have a downhaul PLUS a kicker, so I doubt there is another GIS in existence that has more pressure on the rig than mine. We have had a summer of strong winds and so the tension on the luff has been consistently high.

    My sail is heavy 5oz dacron, and the luff is double thickness, which has now stretched a bit. I posed the question to my sailmaker back in February when we visited Tasmania and he recommended a simple double thickness cloth reinforcement rather than a dyneema cord. This is just another strip of cloth wrapped around the luff. I suggest you do this, because the vibration from a stretched luff is a performance killer.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Hi Bruce,

    Thanks for the feedback.

    It sounds like my SailRite kit is in line with what your sailmaker recommended (if I understood your remarks). SailRite calls for a 2" tape (2" wide piece of sailcloth) folded in half and sewn so it overlaps the luff (of the basic sail shape once the panels are sewn together). Then a 3" tape folded in half is sewn over the luff. So, there would be 5 layers of sailcloth on the luff - the single layer of the sewn panels, the doubled 2" 'tape' and the doubled 3" 'tape.' (Hope that is understandable.)

    I'll defer to your sailmaker and SailRite's wisdom and build the sail as designed.

    Thanks.

    Getting close here...
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,759

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

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    The way we did the PDR luffs was to put a second patch down the full length of the luff which had the threadline parallel to the luff. Some of the sailmakers use the tape that is used to provide a grip for the headsails designed to slide up the groove of a headfoil.

    Would also be possible to use two full length patches of different widths along the luff. More than that would be Overkill I would think.

    Would those with the Duckworks or Mike McNamara (UK) production sails like to have a closer look at what the sailmakers have done?

    MIK

    MIK.

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

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    Thanks Mik.

    Point of clarification - I used the term "reinforcing tape" because that is what SailRite calls it. The "tape" is sailcloth cut into 2" and 3" wide strips.

    Sounds like we are all talking about the same thing.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phkWN0ezvdk"]YouTube - ‪D3-3reef.AVI‬‏[/ame]

    This is my Goat Island Skiff Sailrite kit in action during the 2011 Texas 200. Mik & I just finished this event.

    I changed the location of the #3 reef location from the kits original postion which was aligned with the throat grommet. I lowered the reef point 12 inches below the throat grommet. This keeps the yard and boom tips from grinding on each other. It also provides a little more sail area and a short luff that helps the boat sail a little closer to the wind.

    We used the #3 reef a few times during the Texas 200 with winds ranging between 18-25mph and waves that ranged between 6" and 36". It worked well for us on this trip and I think Mik and I both were both glad we had the option of reducing sail.

    My luff is 2 layers of reinforcing tape of 2 different widths so the seaming is staggered. It works well.

    I do recommend that a high ratio multi-purchase downhaul be used. My downhaul pully system (it's hiding just behind the mast) was not really enough for the high winds we had. It was not that I could not get enough tension in the luff, it just was not easy. I would pull the line and Mik would push down on the boom. Having a downhaul in the 4to1 or 6to1 ratio would make adjusting luff tension easier.

    Enjoy the video

  11. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Thanks for the video, John, I did enjoy it!

    Yes, the luff construction on my sail is as you describe - as it should be since I am building a SailRite kit as well.

    Thanks, too, for the comment re the downhaul. I plan to install a 5:1 which can readily (well, not on the fly) be increased to 10:1 if need be.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  12. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john goodman View Post
    YouTube - ‪D3-3reef.AVI‬‏

    I changed the location of the #3 reef location from the kits original postion which was aligned with the throat grommet. I lowered the reef point 12 inches below the throat grommet. Enjoy the video
    The make my change a little clearer I also moved the top batten down 12". With the top batten in it's orginal position at the throat grommet the batten would bind and make lowering the sail harder and in turn made it harder to roll-up at the end of the day. The black "draft" tape you see in the video is where the orginal batten pocket was. I used this draft tape to cover the holes where the old stricking was just in case it created a weak spot in the sail. It also covered up the old seaming tape that I could not get off the sail too.

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