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Thread: Seacoast NH Eureka
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14th October 2010, 01:50 PM #16
Part of it is to accept it won't be a 65 knot hull and only the fish will see it.
The reason it happens is sometimes some of the stitching from bilge panel to bottom panel is a bit tight when the bilge panel is pulled out to meet the topside panels.
Sometimes it can be a cutting error with some irregularity in the edge curve, but that is not so likely because the Eureka has a lot of points to line up with the batten - so it is easy to spot wrong ones.
The thinner plywood is more prone to the problem than 6mm.
It won't be critical for performance.
Michael
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14th October 2010, 09:48 PM #17Senior Member
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It does look a bit wonky doesn't it? Fix it? - I guess it depends on whether you demand perfection or not, personally I would leave it. If you were to fix it, i think you would need to sand down the tape and cut the ties on, and either side of the warp and push it out flat, but I think you would then be left with gaps between the panels in that area that would need to be filled. I think the only way it could be like that though would be that the curve is slightly too high on the bilge panels leading out from the centre or the width of the bilge panels are slightly out at the centre. Remember shiny varnish will hide a multitude of sins - well it did on mine anyway.
Good Luck
Col
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14th October 2010, 10:05 PM #18
The point about the varnish is a good one.
MIK
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15th October 2010, 11:40 PM #19
Yesterday I did some work on this canoe with Peteloaf and we used wood flour for filling some seams mixed with epoxy.
This was the first time I used wood flour in epoxy as opposed to silica, and was impressed by how much easier it was to mix, and then shape. I strongly feel that for a beginner (or at least me) fillets would have been loads easier if used with wood flour instead of silica. The epoxy was easily mixed to an appropriate consistency, easily shaped, and it didn't run or "bind up."
I think this has been covered before, but what about the strength of wood flour versus silica?
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17th October 2010, 02:55 PM #20
I've never seen any figures, but there have been a lot of boats built that way. I can see it being fine for the hull, but remain a little uncertain about spars and other high stress bits - so I don't recommend it in my plans. Probably need to call in the Cavalry - PAR, where are you?
MIK
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17th October 2010, 03:45 PM #21
Wood flour is commonly employed. In fact, West System 405 has some wood flour in it. It's available in many species, but I would recommend the hardwoods as better choices. It makes a good glue, a stiff fillet and is one of several favorites I use.
There is a huge difference between flour and saw dust. Wood flour is ground to microscopic particle size, while saw dust, even from very fine sand paper is very coarse in comparison. This coarseness makes getting a smooth fillet very difficult. Saw dust can be used and is very strong, but it's also going to need a finishing topcoat, which is irrelevant when the fillet gets taped over.
I use wood flour with silica and often some talc to add to the smoothness of the fillet. I use silica as a thickening agent to control viscosity and I use other materials, suited to the task for the strength, smoothness, bond improvement, toughness, what ever is most suited as an adhesive for the substrate, etc. portion of the mixture. For example, if I'm repairing some production boat, I'll predominately use milled 'glass fibers and silica, possibly with some talc. This is because the milled fibers (we call this stuff liquid 'glass) will form a great bond with the polyester substrate and physically cross link the resin with little overlapping fibers. This makes a very strong fillet, bond, repair, etc. Then again on a wood surface I might use flour with silica, maybe some shredded cotton flock. On the other hand I might mix up some Q-cells, silica and talc for a moderately had fairing mix around the root of a skeg.
These are all examples, but the point is after a while you learn what works well with what and what is the strongest or best suited for the particular task. No two tasks will have the same mixture, though you can often get away with it. Most of time, folks use too much "material" and not in the right combinations. This produces an overly strong joint, which isn't that much of a problem, but it can also make a brittle joint, which is.
If you're familiar with West System products: 403 is shredded cotton flock of approximately .01 mm, 404 is Calcium silicate, 405 is a combination of woof flour, silica and cotton flock, 406 is straight silica, 407 is phenolic micro balloons and 410 are micro spheres. Except for 406, all of the above products have other materials in them, usually to control viscosity, color or bond.
Now, I buy the raw materials in bulk. It's a lot cheaper this way, then the cans of prepackaged stuff. I can buy a 5 gallon bucket of cotton flock for what they charge for a little can of West 403. I mix up batches of two types of fairing compound, a light and a heavy. I make up two types of fillet mix and also a mix of glue. These are stored on sealed buckets and I ladle it out as needed. This keeps thing uniform for me, but I'll add things to suit the conditions of the day or the particular task.
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20th October 2010, 06:38 AM #22
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20th October 2010, 04:28 PM #23
Man you folks are slipping.
I'm pretty good about running spell checker, mostly because I'm the world's worst speller, but it didn't catch this one.
405 is a combination of woof flour, silica and cotton flock
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20th October 2010, 10:03 PM #24Intermediate Member
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21st October 2010, 03:19 PM #25
Too many woofs and the flock is out of here?
MIK
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21st October 2010, 03:29 PM #26
I have to admit I once dated a girl, where the term woof seems appropriate.
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22nd October 2010, 09:02 AM #27Intermediate Member
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Here's my photostream of the building process. I'm missing a few pics. I'll have to locate them. Eureka Canoe - a set on Flickr
From MIK - it looks impossible at this point ... but it will work. Possibly a slightly misleading pic as you start stitching both sides from the middle and progress out to the ends. Also should be three spreaders.
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22nd October 2010, 02:36 PM #28New Member
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Wow Pete, your project is awesome! I cant wait to see its progress. Is this your first boat project? I am just getting rolling on my first boat!
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22nd October 2010, 10:56 PM #29
You should put this one up, the high-gloss effect of a good epoxy job!
DSCN2194 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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23rd October 2010, 12:16 AM #30Intermediate Member
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Thanks MG. This is my first boat. I know I made a few mistakes along the way but nothing that can't be fixed. I think this boat can be built by just about anyone as long as they follow the directions and exercise patience. Even with patience, I'm hoping to have her in the water within two weeks.
Good luck with your project MG. What are you building?
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