Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

Hi Brian,

Fantastic building and photos from Chris as usual :). Trim really is coming along - you must be so excited! It all makes me green with envy, especially as I'm undergoing an enforced holiday! By the way, how do you get to upload them so that they are so big? Mine always seem a rather mingey, cramped size in comparison. Or is it a browser-engine (or Flickr-translation?) related thing that the forum software is enforcing unknowingly to me when it converts the BB-code to html? I don't want to make the photos enormous, but I would like a litle bit more editorial control over them!

Cheers,
Alex.

Above the picture in Flickr there is a magnifying glass .. click on that and you will see the real size plus have options of several smaller ones.

I choose the normal size flickr displays because bigger ones in landscape can mess up the width of the forum page so the buttons are right off the page to the right.

With great power comes great responsibility!

MIK

Rudder fitting are next item to order.

I have posted before that I usually fit HA4020, HA4019, HA4017 and HA4018.

http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Cat~Holt_...ings_4767.html

Will these fit the transom stiffeners ok, the 4040 and 4019 are quite wide?

The 4017 and 4018 are available in 42mm, 45mm, 51mm and 54mm to fit the width of the box. They are reasonably in-expensive. Since this is a standard PDR box, what other rudder hardware do you PDR builders use?

Chris has reminded me that the box bits are bolted with the head of a countersunk bolt on the inside face, so will need to send 670 miles north. Any idea which width is best to go for, since box still to be made?

The stainless fittings actually have a countersunk for the screw head to go in from the outside which a shame to waste. Do builders use locking nuts, two nuts on the outside of the bolts?

Good point seajak about the 6:1, I normally hang a block on a strop over the boom so missed that.

Thanks Brian.

Howdy MIK,

Thanks! :).

Originally Posted by Boatmik

<snip...>
With great power comes great responsibility!

MIK

Ah ,yes indeed :). As I said, I don't want to make them too big - just a bit more generous. I have to force myself to remember laptop screens, though, as they are almost all relatively small/low-res, by comparison with the thing I have sitting on my desk.

A.

Thinking about rudder fitting and now steering with a mizzen mast in the way. My yawl sailing canoe just had one Norwegian tiller which could reach both sides of the 40" wide boat with no problems. RAID41 is wider so that won't work.

Then I remembered that Hugh Horton, who is a very experienced sailing canoe man, uses two Norwegian tillers anyway even though he has no mizzen mast in the way. When asked why he simply explain that it's very convenient to always have a tiller to hand where ever he sits.

So perhaps a very simple two tiller off the rudder yoke might be quick and simple and save build time?



I found this type of tiller slightly difficult to get on with when sitting sideways upwind, never quite sure which way to pull or push until I had some feedback, but they work great when facing forward, tiller under your arm just quietly moving the tiller to sail along in complete relaxed comfort.

Brian

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Rudder fitting are next item to order.

I have posted before that I usually fit HA4020, HA4019, HA4017 and HA4018.

http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Cat~Holt_...ings_4767.html

Will these fit the transom stiffeners ok, the 4040 and 4019 are quite wide?

The 4017 and 4018 are available in 42mm, 45mm, 51mm and 54mm to fit the width of the box. They are reasonably in-expensive. Since this is a standard PDR box, what other rudder hardware do you PDR builders use?

Chris has reminded me that the box bits are bolted with the head of a countersunk bolt on the inside face, so will need to send 670 miles north. Any idea which width is best to go for, since box still to be made?

The stainless fittings actually have a countersunk for the screw head to go in from the outside which a shame to waste. Do builders use locking nuts, two nuts on the outside of the bolts?

Good point seajak about the 6:1, I normally hang a block on a strop over the boom so missed that.

Thanks Brian.

Brian,
I am having trouble finding the brand of the stainless fittings I used that came from Duck Flat perhaps Mik will be along to help, I suspect they are from a local maker.

Here is a pic of the set up the stiffeners are about 6mm so add 4mm ply plus 20mm for the ruddder total width of gudgeon 40mm or there abouts. The 6mm bolts closest to the pivot pin go through the others are counter sunk inside the box I used nylock nuts.

Those are the type of fittings I used on my GIS rudder box but they are sized to fit directly to the plywood sides. They aren't wide enough to fit the box plus the timber stiffeners.

I found mine by Googling the part numbers MIK shows in the plans. I forget the brand but it might be Ronstan.

As for the machine screws at the after end of the box, through the timber pieces, with heads countersunk on the inside, I did not put them in and it appears they are omitted in the PDR box above. I reasoned that the stresses aft are always putting one side or the other in compression, the plywood pushing against the timber stiffeners. I did put them in forward, however.

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Brian,
I am having trouble finding the brand of the stainless fittings I used that came from Duck Flat perhaps Mik will be along to help, I suspect they are from a local maker.

I've been having a similar problem trying to find these things of a similar size for my Puddleduck, brand regardless, here in Sydney. They seem to be quite rare...

Gee, Mike, they're fantastic foils <drool> :).

Thanks for help so far. Cannot find any fitting listed at Duckflat web site.

Looking in closeup at the PDR rudder and the way the fittings bolt onto the box, I think the Holt fittings will be ok, if I can just know the width of the assembly when built. I have 42, 45, 51 and 54mm to choose from.

Brian

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Thanks for help so far. Cannot find any fitting listed at Duckflat web site.

Looking in closeup at the PDR rudder and the way the fittings bolt onto the box, I think the Holt fittings will be ok, if I can just know the width of the assembly when built. I have 42, 45, 51 and 54mm to choose from.

Brian

No the fittings are not listed.....have to talk to Ted about that

OK I understand Michael is using the PDR rudder assembly so rechecking the dim

Finished foil thickness: 24mm +/- 0.5mm therefore allow
Box spacer @ 25mm
2 x 4mm ply box sides = 8mm
2x 6mm stiffeners = 12mm
Total gudgeon internal width 45mm give or take, slightly wider would be OK as you can always pack out the stiffeners but I suggest the 45, 51 maybe a bit too big.

Oh and the bolts for the fittings I used are 5mm sorry.

One other tip is to through bolt or screw the tiller to the rudder box spacer, do not rely on glue alone.

Hope that is a little clearer than mud

Cheers
Mike

Originally Posted by AlexN

I've been having a similar problem trying to find these things of a similar size for my Puddleduck, brand regardless, here in Sydney. They seem to be quite rare...

Gee, Mike, they're fantastic foils <drool> .

Hey thanks Alex must admit I amazed myself. It may be that a call to Ted at Duck Flat for the rudder fittings would be a quick easy solution. They don't wiegh much so postage minimal.

Cheers
Mike

Hi Mike,

The pleasure is all mine :). I particularly like the elegant 2:1 width ratio of the colours: my version is going to be a much more prosaic 1:1 (don't have enough Paulownia and don't quite trust it at that width, for that purpose ;).

I'll give Ted a squawk - last email I sent him he didn't reply to, but that was bang in the middle of the DF Autumn School - I would have been more surprised if he had replied, when I realised what was going on when I sent it!

Cheers,
Alex.

Thanks Mike, 45mm it is. the Holt fittings use No 8 countersunk screws normally screwed from the outside.

Can I ask what size diameter in mm is the same as a No 8 screw.

The bolts through the complete assembly will be say 45mm, plus thickness of stainless fitting plus depth of the nut, say 55mm?

length looks to be 4mm ply, plus 6mm spacer, plus depth of nut, say 6mm, total 16mm, so but 20mm and cut to length?

Probably most sensible to order the bits, take them into the local chandler to sort of fixings and send bits plus fixings up to Chris.

Brian

Bits ordered, more money disappeared!

Decided on 3 Clamcleat CL268 for line 1mm to 4mm, at only £4.48 each I will use one on downhaul, one on the kicker and one on the main halyard. The main halyard will have a back up horn cleat on the bulkhead face, but a temporary holding cleat is handy when raising or lowering the main I have found.

Rudder fittings are Holt

HA4020
HA4019
HA4018-45mm
HA4017-45mm

Total for 3 cleats and rudder fittings came to £47.31. Just two Harken micro camcleat would have cost £48.

forgot to order a retainer clip - oh well.

Will take into local chandlers and sort out all the fixings and then send up to Chris.

Brian