Solo "Expedition" Sailboat - Page 47

Boatmik · #**691** 1st Aug 2009, 11:50 PM

Phew Brian,

Can say that again .... Phew.

That is not a bad starting point!

MIK

)

woodeneye · #**692** 2nd Aug 2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Thinking she might be due a new chopping board! Probably Sikafex in place just along the top edge? Starboard or port offset????
Brian

It is indeed looking a handsome boat and looking forward to some sailing pics (or a video...hint hint).

My brother has the same daggerboard case problem on his Paper Tiger when he installed new foils. He tells me the solution was some strips of marine carpet glued inside the case. It proved to be a perfect solution as there is just enough friction to hold the foils down but not so much as to cause them to be sticky, and it is kind to the finish on them.

keyhavenpotter · #**693** 3rd Aug 2009, 12:01 AM

Start of Keyhaven Sailing Week today. Forecast 10 knots building to 20 knots. About 40 plus boats out in a pursuit race, slowest first, fastest 22 minutes later. Racing for 1 hour.

Sailing out with two Laser Radials and a Solo, RAID41 just quicker than the Solo and slightly slower than the laser Radials. Wind picking up all the time to 15 knots.

Going well, planing nicely on the reaching leg, planing very smoothly on the broad reach section. Great fun. Lots of thumbs from other sailors. Next lap upwind, blowing quite hard and would reef if cruising and add ballast. Tiller extension rope knot came undone so sailing without sitting out at all. Boom bending a lot due to mainsheet block position and tendency of boom to twist over. All the blocks are fixed with loops rather than a vertical hole in the boom. Will drill boom when block positions sorted.

Next reaching leg going well, kept well away from Scows I have caught up to, I managed to capsize on the gybe mark. Fine before in stronger winds, just did something wrong.

So, first time capsize in deep water and waves. Much more difficult. Boat floats high and could not climb up onto dagger, so could not free masthead and sails from water. Rescue boat lifts masthead, boat up quickly and easily. Could not climb in though. Same in all dinghies, very difficult to climb in when deep in the water. My friends also capsized their Wanderer and they could not climb in either. I use stirrups tied the shrouds on my Scow, so will transfer them over. They will need fixing in a position so that they can be reached when in the water.

Back in the boat, all drained out, sailed back home ok.

MIK, it would be good if we could get her floating lower in the water when on her side, perhaps flapped holes in the hull sides? She can drain the water easily. A lower dagger would be good to climb onto. I have rigged lines from the bows along under the hull to the transom drains to make sure I could hold onto the boat if in the water - these worked well and I used them to pull on with my feet against the hull to right the boat.

MIK, also how do you tie the tiller extension to the tiller, so it stays tight - is it just me? I did use a bit of the super slippery Dyneema mind you.

Hoping for some pictures later taken from one of the rescue boats at the bottom mark, and have arranged to take some video later in the week if the weather is ok, gales forecast for Tuesday.

Cannot believe how well the sails set and work with the rig. I had been worried that home made sails might let the boat down somewhat, but they look good, set well and work well.

Just wondering if, when capsized, the stability of the hull and rig on her side, would make it best to stay that side, feet on the lower submerged deck and climb up the hull and over onto the dagger. I dropped into the water and swam round the boat to right her?

Brian

keyhavenpotter · #**694** 3rd Aug 2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodeneye

He tells me the solution was some strips of marine carpet glued inside the case. It proved to be a perfect solution as there is just enough friction to hold the foils down but not so much as to cause them to be sticky, and it is kind to the finish on them.

Thanks Bruce. Dagger seems OK in gap at the moment, an elastic around it and fixed to the hatch dogs is holding it ok just for now. Marine carpet sounds perfect.

Main thing is to sort out my using plain uncovered Dyneema every where. Just will not hold in any cleat - too slippery. Realised on my Scow have have different rope for all the tails which are cleated. Everywhere else the Dyneema is tied off. So need to sort halyard, downhaul, mainsail outhaul and mizzen downhaul!!!

Brian

b.o.a.t. · #**695** 3rd Aug 2009, 02:44 AM

Brian, this is what you get when you set a maniac skiff racer to design a cruising boat... <sigh>

Kept up with Lasers hey?

Did the decks submerge far enough for your cave lockers to fill?
Do you think it would have been different had the ballast tanks been filled?
If so, how much so?
Were you unable to break the mast free, even hanging under the board from its tip?
Or is that wishful thinking? (It's been a -very- long time since I capsized any boat so
can't remember what that part is like...)
chers
AJ

keyhavenpotter · #**696** 3rd Aug 2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

Brian, this is what you get when you set a maniac skiff racer to design a cruising boat... <sigh>

Kept up with Lasers hey?

Did the decks submerge far enough for your cave lockers to fill?
Do you think it would have been different had the ballast tanks been filled?
If so, how much so?
Were you unable to break the mast free, even hanging under the board from its tip?
Or is that wishful thinking? (It's been a -very- long time since I capsized any boat so
can't remember what that part is like...)
chers
AJ

I guess at 10 knots wind speed it was perfect to learn how she sails - it was forecast to pick up to 20 knots, so it might just have been sensible to fill the side ballast tanks. Will do that tomorrow if forecast same.

Her speed was super smooth, no straining to plane - just creaming along!!!! She certainly meets the racing brief!!!

No idea where the water got to in the side lockers, I was round the other side. Could not pull her up hanging from dagger tip. Has to be sail suction, very easy with no sail rigged.

Also the tide was well away by now, some 2 hours after high, so that's 3 hours away on the ebb, (it starts ebbing 1 hour before high in our corner of the Solent). Would probably help if I had tried swinging the head further round into the wind as well. Very rusty at this kind of thing myself.

RAID41 is only 4" wider than my sailing canoe was, so really it's amazing to be sailing with double the area, planing merrily along and at least trying to climb on board. Imagine trying to climb aboard a righted sailing canoe ( Beth aside- that is).

With a reef in, tanks full and stirrups to climb back in, we will develop her softer side!

Brian

robhosailor · #**697** 3rd Aug 2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

RAID41 is only 4" wider than my sailing canoe was, so really it's amazing to be sailing with double the area, planing merrily along and at least trying to climb on board. Imagine trying to climb aboard a righted sailing canoe ( Beth aside- that is).

Yes, I'm very interresting in it. Usually climbing on righted kayak from stern is the best methode... but Beth (and your RAID41 too) have rudder with yokes and mizzen...
Michael have experiences with Beth - we can to ask him.
I will to try of righting and climbing on board on next summer I suppose.

Boatmik · #**698** 3rd Aug 2009, 11:46 AM

Howdy,

When capsizing BETH she comes up with the cockpit about half full of water.

This has two effects.

One is that the boat is quite low to the water .. so it is easy to slide in and also the centreboard is near the water surface when the boat is on its side.

The sides of the RAID have to be higher because of that self draining cockpit and the rowing function.

Which makes it a bigger climb to get in.

When you bring BEth upright too you let her sit sideways to the breeze and climb in so the sail will balance you for a moment. You have to focus on keeping the boat upright until you sheet in the mizzen (tight but not too tight - and she sits pointing into the wind so you can bail her.

MIK

b.o.a.t. · #**699** 3rd Aug 2009, 03:48 PM

Not sure about sail suction.
If the boat sits high, the mast must be angled down, & part of the sail immersed.
Therefore more likely that the balanced sail with buoyant spars is resisting twist to
spill water off the upper side, allowing it to come to the surface. Or summat.

I wondered about water in the lockers because I thought water there would help the boat lie lower, possibly aiding righting.

The under-bottom grab-lines sound like a success, without a significant performance penalty. (Pics Please!)
Stirrups sound like a 'must' in any event.
cheers
AJ

keyhavenpotter · #**700** 3rd Aug 2009, 04:48 PM

Having slept on it, the high float position puts her roll centre, when trying to right her, something like 18" above water level, well above Beth's roll centre. Hence the difficult righting, having to lift the rig from well below horizontal with the sail well submerged in a strong tide going exactly opposite to a strong wind.

The tide holding the sail down and the wind blowing against the high hull doing the same. It seems ironic that the self draining floor causes high sides that make her float high and make her difficult to climb into, yet she comes up with practically no water in her to self drain.

How would she behave on her side if you imagined she had no side decks? The inner lip of the deck is still above water at the moment, without the side deck would she sit much lower, helping in a number of ways?

Brian

woodeneye · #**701** 3rd Aug 2009, 06:20 PM

Tut Tut. Any old salt knows that when ya capsize ya sposed to hoik a leg over the side and climb onto the board as she goes over, not get yaself tipped into the drink! Then, as she comes right way up again ya do the reverse and hop in!

The only problem sometimes is that the old salts know WHAT to do, it's just the DOING that becomes harder

A great story and memorable outing

robhosailor · #**702** 3rd Aug 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatmik

When capsizing BETH she comes up with the cockpit about half full of water.

Thank you Michael,
I will to put a quote of your post in my thread about Beth.

keyhavenpotter · #**703** 3rd Aug 2009, 11:37 PM

Well, today's racing summary

Wind 15knots, gusting 19knots, so top of a force 4.

Filled side ballast tanks and put in first reef. Quite a change, steadier, more planted, just what we were looking for in cruising mode.

Took off some of the edge (a good thing I suppose) but still responsive and going the same speed on a broad reach / down wind as a fully rigged Solo, which was a surprise.

The gybe today was a much softer angle, say 40 degrees, and no problems at all. I should have said that the gybe mark yesterday was the worst angle from a planing starboard broad reach to a planing port reach.

No capsizes!!! Took it steady in the race and finished about 5th in the Scow fleet. They were all unreefed, so good result really. Sail is great, MIK's edge shaping matching the spar bend a treat.

Probably would have been ok with either a reef or ballast, using both settles her down well and she still goes well. Course today was much more upwind/downwind so no screaming reaches!

So, a good day. Too many boats about to trial how she behaved on her side with ballast.

Brian

robhosailor · #**704** 3rd Aug 2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Well, today's racing summary

Wind 15knots, gusting 19knots, so top of a force 4.

Great!!! The boat and her skipper are fantastic!!!

...No photos at all?

Boatmik · #**705** 4th Aug 2009, 11:26 AM

Howdy Brian,

It sounds like the main problems are getting the boat upright after capsize and then getting back aboard. They are quite serious problems too.

It sounds like the capsizing in the first place is coming a bit under control now, but we will have to see how that goes over time too.

The boat is getting a great workout - and thanks hugely for the feedback (including the stuff you have been sending me directly.

Great that it is up against other boats in some intensive sailing too. How does it go upwind compared to the Solos? I know their performance quite well, so they are a useful standard. I know the Laser Radials too, but haven't sailed in one.

Hey .. how does your scow compare to the Solos? Upwind pretty close I would guess.

MIK