Thread: Start Building Another Dutch GIS

Originally Posted by Joost

Hello Ralph,

Looking good!

Two sticky days should see the bulkheads and bottom glued in place!

Joost

Thanks Joost,

I just dropped you a mail asking how you did this:
taking one bulkhead out and glue it back in place...or take everything apart predrilled and build it again with epoxy?
I tend towards gluing one by one, what's your idea?

Hello Ralph,

I would take the whole structure apart again and build it up from scratch from stem to transom gluing the bulkheads in place, just as you did in the dry run, since you now know how to do this best. I would think that if you take a bulkhead out one at the time, you will need to pull the sides out hard to allow for sufficient room for the bulkheads to go in (it sounds like a recipe for getting glue all over the place and damaging the structure to me).

The pre-drilled holes should ensure that everything is lined up correctly. One thing to remind is that the screws should go in from the top of the bulkhead to the bottom to avoid the sides from going "concave" or "convex" (not sure what it is called).

Good luck!

Joost

Have a read of my experiences putting the hull of the Little Black Dog together from this post - she's the Rowing Skiff and has a lot more flare than the GIS but is essentially similar. It may help. I did not disassemble the hull after the dry fit.

Richard

Originally Posted by Joost

Hello Ralph,
One thing to remind is that the screws should go in from the top of the bulkhead to the bottom to avoid the sides from going "concave" or "convex" (not sure what it is called).
Joost

Joost, I always remember the difference like this.
Concave.....a cave goes inward (so therefore convex is the other!)

Good point to remember though.

Watermaat, your GIS is really powering on now, and it's exciting to see your Goat suddenly appear from all those bits that were hanging up being coated! Your bulkhead, transom and ply timbers look great and I think you're going to have a very pretty boat.

Due to other daily commitments and work during the week, I'm pretty much limited to grabbing some time on weekends, so my project will be slow one. Until I go 3D, I'll be able to do much of the work on our deck at the back of the house. It's under cover and exposed on 2 sides, but I can store my timber in a dry spot at least. My garage gets water on the floor from run-off when it rains heavily, so I can't store anything on the floor.When it's time to go 3D (probably January 2010) I think I'll just have to take a week off work for this critical stage.

Ralph,

Your boat is looking GREAT!

Posts like yours provide motivation for folks like me! I'm hoping to go 3D with mine in late November - Thanksgiving weekend looks awfully inviting. )

Keep up the excellent work. I'll be interested in reading about the building method you choose. Everyone's posts are instructional as well as motivational.

Bob

FWIW, I really, really, really recommend the full dry fit and then FULLY taking the boat apart and reassembling with glue. I've built about 3 dozen boats in the style of the Goat and the other boats, and have found time and time again, whether I am doing a boat with kids or other experienced folks, that doing the dry fit 100% and then taking it apart 100% and reassembling with glue is the way to go. It is nice to have a helper so you can glue the whole hull together in one fell swoop.

Key point: make tons of registration marks or 'alignment' marks with a fat carpenter's pencil so that bulkheads go back into place. Having clamps available to clamp bhds in while you drive screws is good too, especially with the dry fit. Remember, too, that when you tighten up a screw it is easy to pull a bhd out of alignment, thus the useful ness of clamps.

My 2 cents on dry fits and putting together hulls wet.

Clint

Hi Guy's
thanks for the nice words and valuable tips. You can build any boat if you can bring things back to understandable and maneagable small steps. As somebody told me "climbing a mountain is just making many steps up"
It as been very valuable for me to see all those tips and tricks in this forum, so it's nice to ad a few more and to motivate people.

Today 3D fixing day and not as sticky as I expected. No.... .....I did not take everything apart but found a nice alternative that worked very well.

After the dry-fit I pre-drilled most screw-holes and marked positions of frames carefully
I loosend the stem first Attachment 119836
I put a few fixation blocks on the workhorse to keep the chine loosely in place Attachment 119841
After that I took BH 1 and 2 out Attachment 119837 Attachment 119838
I put epoxyglue on BH 2 and fixed it in place with few screws, not fully tightend.
Similar I put BH 1 back in place and finally the stem. On this picture you see BH2 fixed in place and BH 1 fixed on one side Attachment 119839

This works very well you do not need much force but you need to have some preparation !
I used stainless screws ( I leave them in ) and put them already in the ply before starting with glue. It' s nice to have an battery screwdriver and a few nails to feel the predrilled holes. Put glue on the frame, place the frame in the right position on one side with one hand and put a few screws ( bit loose ) with the other hand. Go to te other side, find the right position and put a few screws too. Do not fully tighten the screws since you need to have some movement and don't want to squeeze out all epoxy.

Next step was to take BH 3 out. I found out that both sides move outward a bit and this gives you space. Attachment 119840
I fixed it again with glue similar as mentioned before.

After that I put a few fixation blocks on the aft workhorse close to BH 4, took the transom out first Attachment 119842 and BH 4 after that.
Than BH4 goes in again and finally the transom Attachment 119843
I found you need most force to get this transom in place, I used screw-holes every 5 cm / 2inch to be able to put sufficient force to close the gap.

Than I temporary fixed both gunwales and checked if all frames were horizontal. On the picture you see I put some weight to get rid of a light torsion in the back. Attachment 119845

Finally I put the rest of the screws and tightend them all. I luckally also had the time to clean squeezed out glue and make nice filets. Attachment 119844

All together it took me 3 hours to get this done ( no breaks allowed ) and just in time before the epoxy started to get stiffer.

Lots of information in this post.....but it gave me a few sleepless hours to sort out how to do this well and than suddenly this solution popped up .............
For all new GIS builders..........YES you can do it !

Good solution mate, particularly the blocks on the saw horses

Man, the GIS is so much easier to put together than the Rowing Skiff

Permanent fasteners eh? Any reason? Just preference?

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

Good solution mate, particularly the blocks on the saw horses

Man, the GIS is so much easier to put together than the Rowing Skiff

Permanent fasteners eh? Any reason? Just preference?

Richard

Just preference If you need to put them in...why take them out? Stainless steel machine screws are not expensive nowadays and weight is hardly an issue.

I made a Welsford Seagull last year with stitch and glue chines........similar design with lots of flair and a pain to get that bow together. I remember I fixed outside gunwales first and used long bolts through them to get that done

I´m hoping to get to this stage in January (holiday time) and this step-by-step guide is really helpful. Bet you it takes me more than 3 hours, though.

Steve

Originally Posted by Watermaat

Just preference If you need to put them in...why take them out? Stainless steel machine screws are not expensive nowadays and weight is hardly an issue.

The only real case for removing screws is that apart from the slight weight saving, screws have a tendency "pop" the epoxy filler above the head and this introduces moisture into the end grain of the ply or timber around the hole. The effect of this is seen as staining around the screw holes in many timber boats, irrespective of whether stainless steel is used. Of course, no screws and no holes in the timber is the ultimate.

However, in a regularly well maintained boat, this is of no real consequence.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

The only real case for removing screws is that apart from the slight weight saving, screws have a tendency "pop" the epoxy filler above the head and this introduces moisture into the end grain of the ply or timber around the hole. The effect of this is seen as staining around the screw holes in many timber boats, irrespective of whether stainless steel is used. Of course, no screws and no holes in the timber is the ultimate.

However, in a regularly well maintained boat, this is of no real consequence.

You are probably right, but I leave them pretty deep under the woodsurface, always use a first coat of epoxy before doing any filling, put several coats of epoxy after that and finally paint ( these screws are from the outside only ) ..........I guess that will keep them dry ?
But you have a point; in many old wooden boats you see the places where screws or bolts are used.

Another sticky day and GIS has a bottum now

I turned around the hull ( easy done single handed ) and planed surfaces flat.
I put all frames horizontal before finishing these surfaces. Attachment 120010

Before you close the hull do not forget to cut drainholes! Attachment 120011

Then I put the bottum, centered following MIK's plan, checked if things were still horizontal and did a dry fit with a few screws. I also pre-drilled all other screw holes. Attachment 120003

I unscrewed the front part of the screws including BH3 and lifted this part. I put epoxy glue as far as I could reach towards BH4 ( about halfway ). Attachment 120004
I lowered the ply that falls roughly in position and checked alignment through a few pinholes. I fixed this part starting from BH1 and bow area towards BH3. BH3 can be fixed with screws, but leave the rest open towards the transom.

Similar I lifted the back part of the ply, put glue, checked alignment again and fixed things from BH3 towards the transom. Attachment 120005

Then I turned the hull, checked if bulkheads are still horizontal and started cleaning glue and making filets. Attachment 120006, Attachment 120007 ,Attachment 120008 , Attachment 120009 .

And suddenly I have a GIS .........or at least something that could float for a while.

After the dry-fit and lifting the frontpart you start mixing glue. You can have things done within 3 hours if you have a battery screwdriver. Making the filets before the glue starts to cure takes a big part of this timeframe

I gave lots of details in my last few post, since this part of building gave me the most sleepless hours........and I would not be surprized that happens to lots of builders .
Al the smaller bits and parts are not easy too, but you could do them over again if worst things happen ( at some costs and frustration )
But going 3D with GIS is pretty vital for having a nice boat finally or just a floating "whatever" thing.
I do not pretend this is the best or the only way..........but it worked well single handed, without much stress and good control.

And now just a few minor details and I can sail......................

Yeah, fitting the bottom single handed is a mug's game. I didn't have to go propping things up but I was lucky enough to have my son home at the time and got him to help lift the bottom onto the boat - that's all he did, just lifted it onto the right place then buggered off to go kick a football around but that little bit of help made a big difference.

I didn't flip it to clean up and fillet, that didnt' even occur to me I climbed underneath and just did a clean up which is really doing it the hard way. I'm still trying to work out who had the better idea (coz I'm still shy about glued bits around).

Richard