Thread: Trailer sailor

I second this motion, a Storer Trailer Sailor. STS. Simply Terrific Ship.

Woodeneye, what did you dislike like about CLC's Pocketship? I keep coming back around to it (too much project for me right now, but maybe down the road) and I liked what I saw. What are the compromises for you?

Originally Posted by callsign222

I second this motion, a Storer Trailer Sailor. STS. Simply Terrific Ship.

Woodeneye, what did you dislike like about CLC's Pocketship? I keep coming back around to it (too much project for me right now, but maybe down the road) and I liked what I saw. What are the compromises for you?

Hey, STS is a great moniker!

Taking nothing away from the design brief for the Pocketship, it's a nifty little boat but just a tad small for what I'd want in a trailer sailor. A bit more room for 2 or 3 aboard for a weekend is more ideal for me and perhaps most TS types. I'm thinking something like a cross between the ubiquitous TS16 and a Catboat with a simple lug rig and a skiff-like hull to allow for navigating shallow waters. It would probably have to be a centreboarder but with water ballast and an electric pump to empty the ballast prior to loading back onto the trailer. There are some pretty lightweight high capacity 12V pumps around these days.

A TS is also a bit much for me right now, but with retirement beckoning in 2-3 years time, a TS will be ideal. And guess what, SWMBO has already greenlighted the project

I can hear Mick groaning already!

What do you think: Startpoint is the Goat, not Raid 41, stretched in length to 9,4 m, beam a bit less to 2,5 m, rig maybe a lug sail schooner (handling with trailer is more easy than a sloop, has better looks than a ketch and has no prob's with the tiller), foreseat lifted to create a cuddy, aft seat as well (two cabins! snoring and silent separated! camping style acomodation), double bottom selfdraining with water ballast amidship, weight ballasted around 1000 kg, hull weight empty around 600 kg. And a fixed ladder aft for reentering after a swim. I would like a boat like that. Greetings and sorry for the style - in the moment most of my returns get not saved by the system - Jörn

Originally Posted by joern

What do you think: Startpoint is the Goat, not Raid 41, stretched in length to 9,4 m Jörn

Ouch, 9.4m = 30' in the old measurements That is a HUGE trailer sailor Jörn! I'm thinking more about 17-18ft, maximum 20ft for a trailer sailor Something that a 4-6 cylinder car could cope with easily and may be launched singlehanded from a ramp, or with minimal help.

Much over 18' and solo launching starts becoming difficult. There are literally thousands of designs to choose from in this size range (the 17' to 18' trailer boat is the most popular size worldwide).

At 17' a well designed, half decked, open boat should be in the 300 to 350 pound range, using a fairly light plywood such as Okoume. You can go lighter, but you'll have to forgo air boxes, lockers, etc.. Beam would be around 6' on this type of boat, much over this and you're dragging around more then you need. 120 to 130 sq. ft. of sail area and you've got some potential.

Add a small cuddy cabin to this, maybe just enough to sit in and avoid a passing rain squall. This might add 50 pounds. All for about 15% of the full up boat weight and not much of a burden.

Boats this size are easily over burdened and this is a pit fall that many drop into. Once you try to install a regular cabin, bridge deck, raised cockpit sole, etc., suddenly the design is 2/3's to twice as much more then it needs to be and sailing performance pays dearly for this. The Pocketship is a classic example of this problem. I call it the Dolly Parton syndrome (you might not get this if you're not an American). Maybe it's better to call it 10 pounds of boob in a 5 pound bra. Don't anyone try to fool you into thinking it's fast, because it's not and it's heavy as 15' boats go too (800 pounds hull weight).


I guess my point is, be careful what you wish for. In small boats, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Perhaps Mik may revisit the GIS X concept but tone it done a little for a more sedate ride.



Cheers
Mike

This is one of mine in the same vain as above, except I'm not kidding anyone with rig selection (it's sprit boomed, fractional Bermudian). Open transom, slightly reversed sheer, reversed transom, self draining cockpit, you'll want to wear cloths you don't mind getting wet in, etc. It has a unique employment of a end plate, which helps keep it's butt from squatting when screaming along. Hold 'er down and you'll fly, don't and you'll quickly auger 'er in. I also have a larger version which has topside wings, to make hiking more comfortable.



Larger image of this here . . . http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...ze/big/cat/500

Originally Posted by PAR

This is one of mine in the same vain as above, except I'm not kidding anyone with rig selection (it's sprit boomed, fractional Bermudian). Open transom, slightly reversed sheer, reversed transom, self draining cockpit, you'll want to wear cloths you don't mind getting wet in, etc. It has a unique employment of a end plate, which helps keep it's butt from squatting when screaming along. Hold 'er down and you'll fly, don't and you'll quickly auger 'er in. I also have a larger version which has topside wings, to make hiking more comfortable.



Larger image of this here . . . RYD-14.6 - Boat Design Net Gallery

Interesting design PAR but more in the sportsboat vein than a weekend cruiser with a cabin for camping. She looks quick. Has it been built yet?

RYD-14.6 is really intended to do one thing well, the rest can wait for some one else's boat. I posted it for comparison to the GIS X above which also seems to have limited uses. This boat has some power and an upwind SA/D over 27. Down wind, whatever you can keep in the boat will do. One is under construction locally, I'll probably get a chance to sail in a few months.

Originally Posted by PAR

RYD-14.6 is really intended to do one thing well, the rest can wait for some one else's boat. I posted it for comparison to the GIS X above which also seems to have limited uses. This boat has some power and an upwind SA/D over 27. Down wind, whatever you can keep in the boat will do. One is under construction locally, I'll probably get a chance to sail in a few months.

Cool we'll look forward to hearing about that. What is the expected weight, 6 or 9 mm ply?

limited but exciting uses

6 mm Okoume is what I've spec'ed with at least 8 ounce biax on the inside of the bottom, going about 100 mm up the sides. This makes the bottom as stiff as 9 mm for less weight and slightly better penetration resistance. Full up dry hull weight will be about 55 kg. Plans call for three types of masts. The first is an aluminum tube for 2/3's the height, with a carbon top and hollow curved wooden boom, the second is an all aluminum mast with wooden boom and the last is a birdsmouth mast and wooden boom. The composite spars will be in the 7 -8 kg range, plus sails, rigging etc., expect serviceable weights to be in the 70 kg range, depending on materials employed. Spectra isn't especially costly and I've been using this, on these types of boat at a huge weight savings.

If you had to compare it to something tangible, she has a higher "power to weight" ratio then a Laser. She's about the same size, but with more "potential", particularly up wind as her entry is fine and light. Off wind she has less "patch" then boats from the original Laser's era, but she doesn't need it and she has better lines (bearing) across a wider range of inclination, so she'll stay in the groove longer, after getting up on plane sooner. We've learned so much since the Laser was first invented and are going a lot faster for it. Currently, water based sail boats can burst through 70 MPH (112 km) and can sustain speeds in excess of 65 MPH (104). That's cooking with gas folks. Land based sailing craft are routinely blasting through 120 MPH (193 km) and I've personally been in a land rocket over going over 80 MPH (129 km).

So, my little toy isn't that breath taking. Sailed well, it has potential for mid teens fairly easily, with bursts into the low high teens. The idea was an easy to build (low cost), modern looking boat that will not get it's transom stomped on the local lakes by performance boats of similar size. I solved the transom smashing issue by removing it, gave it a stylish sheer (which also serves to keep you butt drier then a conventional shape), raked stern, plum bow (not styling, but to maximize LWL) and a modern, but easy handled rig.

I can hear Mik clamoring about fractional Bermudian rigs now. It has two halyards, a main out haul, main down haul/Cunningham, and two sheets. It doesn't need a vang with the sprit boom. The out haul is just a line and cheek block fixed to the end of the boom so you can tension the clew, the down haul doubles as a Cunningham and doesn't need tackle and that's it besides sheets and halyards which are kind of necessary. Battens are home made and the roach is fat, but not overly so. It's a moderte, but clearly modern rig. Fast doesn't have to be expensive.

Paul,
Thanks for the explanation really interesting project.

To state the bleeding obvious the centrecase looks well forward and is it off centre to allow for the mast to be stepped through the deck as an unstayed rig. So why swing instead of dagger and on the centre line?

I assume you have tested that end plate concept, in fact my fading memory vaguely recalls you discussing testing on a mule a while back or maybe I'm imagining that. Is it adjustable or can the crew alter the rudder angle on the go. I would imagine hull trim becomes super critical.

How big is the larger version hiking wings sounds like me.

Actually at 20' with a cuddy and you've got me.

20' with wings is a huge boat, considering her design intent. It would require a large crew (in both regards) and a cuddy wouldn't be something I want to encumber this boat with. Maybe full sitting headroom and a flushing john too? The larger version is just under 18' on the water, which is about 20% longer, but it's narrower on the LWL and has more potential by making fewer compromises.

Originally Posted by PAR

Maybe full sitting headroom and a flushing john too?

Ah but of course and built in refrigeration for the beer.

18' flyer sounds like a lot of fun, is someone building the bigger version.

It's a pity the interest in the lightweight ply sportsboat or performance concept does not appear to be as large compared to the traditional wooden boat brigade. I can only recall maybe two or three recent designs in this category but then I haven't been searching for them. As you say probably due to the more limited use and I guess because people in that market are are still hung up on maintenance. Plus it seems the older dinghy sailers (that would be me) are generally going for the creature comforts and max waterline length for the dollar from the production boat models.

BTW how many designs in your portfolio the list on Design Net is impressively broad in category with interesting ideas.