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19th November 2012, 10:49 PM #16
Thanks Geoff.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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19th November 2012 10:49 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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20th November 2012, 02:03 PM #17
Bob it seems like you have a strange aversion to the Shark and a love affair with Chines machines.
Iam not going to engage in an argument about whether the Shark is overpriced but I have no wish to rubbish the Shark. I am pretty sure I got what I paid for. I would never have received the kind of support I got from CarbaTec, if I had bought my machine from China.
Have you ever taken a Shark apart and looked at the innards? I have.
Tell me which machine can improve on 0.005mm accuracy, please.
The fact that I am replacing all the HDPU parts is partly because of the look, partly because I am a born tinkerer and partly because I am asking more of the machine than what it was designed for. I was reading a post the other day where someone was saying that most members here are struggling to cut aluminium. Well, I am cutting 22mm aluminium on the Shark.
The router bracket was the wrong size for the large router I am using and enlarging the hole was not really that satisfactory, so I decide that, as I am making a new one, I might as well do it in alloy, then I didn't like the look of alloy against the black router support so I make that as well. The gantry, although it is made in HDPU, is also reinforced with heavy alloy U brackets. I re-designed the gantry sides to utilise the size of the table as much as I could, not that there was anything wrong with the old ones, it is just the way I am.
I have not seen adjustable double bearings anywhere, so I did it myself, making them rock solid on the rails. No need for supported rails, the support is already there.
There is no way in the world I would ever be happy with a machine built from MDF or ply and steel does not last long up here.
As I said, once I took the Shark completely to pieces, I was impressed how well it is designed, pity the manufacturer is a cheapskate.
When I decide I need a bigger machine, I will use the Shark to make the parts.
I have yet to hear from anybody who doesn't wish something was different about their machine. No matter which machine you buy, there is always room for improvement.
I have no idea what the difference is between Geckos and stepper motors, hence I cannot have an opinion on that but what I have works for me.
I made inquiries about an Aussie built desktop machine and I am still picking my jaw off the floor over the price.
I do not know what you use your machine for but I am not normally into designing machine parts, I never was a machinist in the first place.
Actually, not much is shown in this forum about what people do with their machines, it is all about problems and what should I buy, where can I get the parts?
So, let's agree to disagree, I like the Shark, you like China.Every day is better than yesterday
Cheers
SAISAY
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20th November 2012, 07:30 PM #18
Today I had a look at a second hand, very well made, full sheet machine with vacuum table.
I just need to find room for it in my shed which I think is possible.
This will work well for me as all I need to do is step back in time and source a computer running windows, load the software, and I will be up and running."There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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20th November 2012, 07:50 PM #19
How much?
Bob Willson
The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.
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20th November 2012, 07:58 PM #20
I'd rather not say at this stage without the sellers permission, but it is within my budget, even allowing for pc and software.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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20th November 2012, 10:07 PM #21SENIOR MEMBER
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20th November 2012, 10:16 PM #22
You may have already seen pics as it is from a member here.
I won't disclose details until I have pulled the trigger so to speak and we have made a deal"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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20th November 2012, 10:58 PM #23GOLD MEMBER
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Hi SAISAY
In the interests of providing accurate information to the forum readers I consider your claim of 0.005mm to be misguided. Given the Shark runs on Acme threads, direct coupled to the Stepper with no antibacklash bearings the accuracy would be likely in the tenths of a mm. There are other factors such as unsupported linear rails, single screw and a router rather than a spindle that will affect the accuracy of the Shark.
I have assembled and give training on the Shark so the machine is not foreign to me.
To achieve 0.005mm accuracy one would be looking at a heavy cast iron machining centre using very expensive certified diameter cutters. Even with one of these factors such as cutter deflection could produce a greater variance than 0.005mm.
To put the measurement into perspective 0.005mm is 5 microns or 2 ten thousandths of an inch. A human hair is around 7 thou.
I am pleased to hear and impressed that your Shark is cutting 20mm ally plate.
I don't want to be drawn into the Shark verses the Chinese machines but I think it important to give accurate information so readers can make their own minds up.
We do have a projects (well a closed one too) thread but people posting stuff get little or no feedback so eventually stop posting. That is the trouble of too many lurkers and not enough participation.Cheers,
Rod
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20th November 2012, 11:28 PM #24
I really didn't want to start a Shark debate
Some people prefer a turn key set up, I am one of those people.
Having an industrial electrical and electronics background I'm sure I could build my own machine but I don't really want to for various reasons.
My problems may have been solved anyway
Rod, on your point about info, I understand forums are rife with new people asking the same questions but for some reason the cnc forum is difficult to search.
Possibly because people new to cnc don't know the vernacular.
For example, in the last few days I have read many threads and saw a lot of mention about 6040 and 6090, but it didn't click for a while that they were model numbers.
Also, many people don't even consider chinese machines as they have a bad rep, but it seems in the cnc field they can be a viable solution.
Another example, I am currently searching for dust collection solutions to the moving gantry problem on a cnc but am not having much luck."There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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21st November 2012, 01:06 AM #25GOLD MEMBER
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21st November 2012, 01:42 AM #26
Hi Rod,
I agree completely with your point on chinese machines, much of my machinery is made in China.
From a cnc newbie point of view, I wrote off the chinese machines simply because they are so much cheaper than others.
What you say about using them as a starting point and upgrading them is in line with what I was saying.
However this isn't apparent to a newbie searching for information
Even though I have possibly sourced a full sheet machine I am also considering a smaller chinese machine to start experimenting with aluminium.
Re the dust extraction, I have in my workshop a 3hp cyclone unit with 150mm ducting, but I probably won't use this on a cnc as it would be a long run.
I also think it would be overkill.
Many years ago I modified a 1hp extractor to work similar to a cyclone so will probably locate that closer to the cnc and use it.
However, is a high volume low velocity (dust collector) necessary?
On a router table I use a vacuum cleaner split into two hoses above and below the table which works well.
A cnc is basically just a router table so shouldn't a vacuum cleaner be okay?
Of course, I have little experience with cnc but that is my initial thought.
From my reading here so far, and as you have said, 100mm seems to be the go.
Regardless of that, my main question about a dust set up is not the system, but how to attach it.
On a full sheet machine the hose needs to travel quite a distance in all directions.
This is the area I was searching for inspiration."There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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21st November 2012, 02:40 AM #27GOLD MEMBER
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21st November 2012, 09:48 AM #28
One final thing about the Shark. I'm not really knocking it, just saying that for the money you can do much better. If the Shark suits your needs then be happy.
This is the machine that is sold in USA for almost half the price that Carbatec sells it here in Oz. We do get a ($300) router thrown in with our version though.Bob Willson
The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.
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21st November 2012, 10:22 AM #29Senior Member
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Tekcel router
There's a fellow in Perth, W.A. with two Tekcel K series cnc 8x4 ft routers for sale.
They're Aussie-built, and would be about the year 2000 vintage.
He had them on fleabay for a while, at $9k (each), and now has them listed in a WA machinery dealer website.
I think both are a 2-head machine, but you could pull one head off, and easily reset the Tekmove drive program to tell it there's only 1 head.
The spindle is a 3 hp Perske.
To me, that is a bargain for a good machine.
Our own router here is much older & was retrofitted with Tekcel K series electronics in 2001.
It has its issues, but that's to do with the age of the wires & things like that-not the Tekcel aspect.
They're in a woodwork shop that's been running for years-and the shop has 3 routers. The owner is scaling back to what he can handle with just himself & no other staff, leading toward retirement, I think.
Personally, I'd be flying over for a look, before flying to China- I know there's the freight issue from WA to the rest of Oz, but the seller does speak English, and there are Tekcel service agents in Sydney & Brisbane.
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21st November 2012, 11:19 AM #30
Rod, that all makes sense, cheers.
As for cutting ally on the big machine, I am a bit OCD and don't like to mix metal work with wood work.
If I had a smaller machine it would go on castors and be used in the carport, which is where I do my metalwork.
Plus, the machine I am looking at has an mdf table which wouldn't like having lubricants anywhere near it.
Again, this is all new to me and cutting ally on it may be feasible
As for the fellow making science fiction costumes, my brother is mad for that stuff, I'll have to search around and see what is possible.
Stewey, thanks for the tip, I found those on machines4u.
If the current machine I am looking at doesn't work out I will consider one of those."There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
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