$15k - Which off the shelf machine?

**SAISAY** · 21st November 2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Willson

One final thing about the Shark. I'm not really knocking it, just saying that for the money you can do much better. If the Shark suits your needs then be happy.

This is the machine that is sold in USA for almost half the price that Carbatec sells it here in Oz. We do get a ($300) router thrown in with our version though.

OK, first of all, that was the original machine, much has happened since then.
You cannot just look at the price in USA and compare it with the price in Australia, there are other things to be considered.
Now, to take the machine you are using as an example, add freight and, because it is over $1.000 you have to file an Import declaration in person at certain Customs and Border Protection offices, add import duty 5%, add GST 10%and remember that GST is not just on the purchase price, it is also on the import duty and the freight.
Then you have to add freight from the port of import to your place, of course that depends on where you live and how far away from the port you are so I cannot estimate that.
Say $2599.99 purchase price, add $1.000 freight, add import duty 5%, GST 10% and see what you come up with then add the inconvenience of either doing it yourself or engaging a professional importer.
$2599.99US + 5% of the equivalent $au at today’s exchange rate that would be $2888.2164 + $144.41082 duty, add freight say $1.000au, that makes it $3032.62722 before GST 4$403.262722,so now we have $4436.26182 before the item is even removed from the Customs office. Add the cost of freight from Customs to your workshop and we are not far from CarbaTec’s price of $4.895.-and we have not, as yet, added the value of the router and 12 months warranty.
No business sells anything at all without adding mark-up so now we see the price is not really that different to what you would pay if you imported the machine yourself and where you would not get the router and the warranty.
Come back after you have done your own calculations and tell me again that the machine is overpriced here.
I happen to know how much CarbaTec is paying for the machine but I am not at liberty to reveal that, so I have purely compared what the machine would cost if you imported it yourself and what CarbaTec charges for it.

A reality check is sometimes surprising

**SAISAY** · 21st November 2012, 11:38 AM

just adding, I am in no way involved with CarbaTec other than as a customer but I used to be involved in importing machinery in another company.

**simso** · 22nd November 2012, 08:54 PM

Do not buy it from carbatec, it is a joke of a machine.

Yes I do like carbatec and actually buy from them on a weekly basis for something, but the shark is a bad comedy act for its price

**Jack E** · 22nd November 2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by simso

Do not buy it from carbatec, it is a joke of a machine.

Yes I do like carbatec and actually buy from them on a weekly basis for something, but the shark is a bad comedy act for its price

See post #18

**simso** · 22nd November 2012, 09:28 PM

there is a china seller by the name of Tangtaney, he is honest reliable abd fair priced, you could buy it new for the price of a local second hand one

**Jack E** · 22nd November 2012, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by simso

there is a china seller by the name of Tangtaney, he is honest reliable abd fair priced, you could buy it new for the price of a local second hand one

Do you mean I could buy a new full sheet machine as mentioned in post #18 for the price of a second hand one?

**simso** · 22nd November 2012, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jack E

Do you mean I could buy a new full sheet machine as mentioned in post #18 for the price of a second hand one?

Yep

**Jack E** · 22nd November 2012, 09:50 PM

I am not one to bag chinese machinery sight unseen, I have a lot of gear which was made in China, but in this case I would have to disagree.

Without knowing which machine I have bought how could you possibly say that?

**simso** · 22nd November 2012, 10:09 PM

Well after a lengthy typed reply, and then the new forum again locking me out and crashing, let me simply cut down the 4 paragraphs I wrote to a simple line, if youve already purchased a unit, then the discussion is mute.

**Jack E** · 22nd November 2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by simso

Well after a lengthy typed reply, and then the new forum again locking me out and crashing, let me simply cut down the 4 paragraphs I wrote to a simple line, if youve already purchased a unit, then the discussion is mute.

Not really.

Given how hard it is for people new to cnc to find info in this forum perhaps it could be helpful to someone in the future.
Especially if there is a reliable dealer in China selling and shipping good quality machines which work out of the box and don't require upgrades.

Plus, I am interested to know

**simso** · 22nd November 2012, 11:11 PM

Done a lot of research over the years

Built my own Cnc lathe router etc before it became a fashionable thing like it is today, good friends like rod helped me in the early days before forums with Cnc sections like this one existed.

i even remember writing to this particular forum before we had a Cnc section requesting one, they were kind enough to via that request to provide the current section we use

i searched Aussie suppliers / American suppliers / china suppliers, china won hands down, to many people complain about poor quality from china, its great quality and you only appreciate it after making one for yourself, the small manufacturing issues that may occur are trivial for the price you pay.

that being said one supplier for me wins hands down, tangtanney, I've bought a commercial 8 tool auto changing unit from him, and a Cnc laser unit and a Cnc laser scscanner you cannot buy second hand in Australia the same as new from china, we are too dear, it's as simple as that

the only way you can buy something comparable would be by buying from someone in Australia who is already buying the parts from china and locally assembling them to suit English speaking people, so they are making money from the sometimes existent language barrier.

**Jack E** · 22nd November 2012, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by simso

Done a lot of research over the years

Built my own Cnc lathe router etc before it became a fashionable thing like it is today, good friends like rod helped me in the early days before forums with Cnc sections like this one existed.

i even remember writing to this particular forum before we had a Cnc section requesting one, they were kind enough to via that request to provide the current section we use

i searched Aussie suppliers / American suppliers / china suppliers, china won hands down, to many people complain about poor quality from china, its great quality and you only appreciate it after making one for yourself, the small manufacturing issues that may occur are trivial for the price you pay.

that being said one supplier for me wins hands down, tangtanney, I've bought a commercial 8 tool auto changing unit from him, and a Cnc laser unit and a Cnc laser scscanner you cannot buy second hand in Australia the same as new from china, we are too dear, it's as simple as that

the only way you can buy something comparable would be by buying from someone in Australia who is already buying the parts from china and locally assembling them to suit English speaking people, so they are making money from the sometimes existent language barrier.

Whilst in no way experienced in cnc, I agree with most of your points.

However, the machine I am buying was commissioned and built locally, and for around twice the cost of a Shark I will have a full sheet machine with a vacuum table.
It has been in use for some years now, and the guy who had it built and has operated it in that time lives an hour away from me.
He is also willing to help me set it up ay my place and offer some support in the future if needed.
Either way, I'm quite happy.

Does tangtanney have a website?

**Ger21** · 23rd November 2012, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jack E

Re the dust extraction, I have in my workshop a 3hp cyclone unit with 150mm ducting, but I probably won't use this on a cnc as it would be a long run.
I also think it would be overkill.
Many years ago I modified a 1hp extractor to work similar to a cyclone so will probably locate that closer to the cnc and use it.

I've got about 15 years experience using large commercial routers. My advice, would be to run the 150mm duct right to the machine, high over the center of the table, if you have enough height. From there you can reduce to a 100mm hose, right to the machine.
On my homebuilt small machine, I use a 1HP dust collector, but consider it only adequate for a small machine. For a larger machine, a 2HP or bigger should be considered the minimum. CNC Routers create a tremendous amount of dust and chips, and you need a lot of suction to help to contain and extract them.

**snowyskiesau** · 23rd November 2012, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Jack E

Does tangtanney have a website?

From threads on cnczone.com, I believe this is the guy. He works (or worked, not sure how old the webpage is) at Jinan Quick CNC.

Contact Us - Jinan Quick CNC Router Co., Ltd.

**simso** · 23rd November 2012, 08:45 PM

Thats him,

Its his business, really pleasant to deal with and very honest

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