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  1. #1
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    Default CNC controller in PC case , black out proof ?

    i bought a dud of a china made CNC , discontinued line ( i wonder why )
    it was dam cheep and im proud i bought it ,. could not by the parts for the price they were on ebay
    ive had the controll box moving the x,y,z nice and smooth
    but the VDF installed was a dud , the mosfit's were not toughing the heat sinks ???? so have to rebox it to fit a new vfd


    tonight's effort
    since I had an old PC case lying around that was about the volume i need , it got stripped back to bare shell tonight , and a pair of 240 volt 120,mm fans fitted to it , i gutted the blown up power supply ( lightning hit my bore and blew every thing up in my house ) and fitted 3 x solid state relays on a heat sink , a 6pin control plug , power" in" and switch , will have to cut a hole for the second power in ( on same phase , separate 10amp fuse )


    the dream
    with this build i hope to sort out the power " black out" problem , 2x 240 volt inputs , 1 for the steppers and control side , a separate 240 volt input for the heavy load spindle , cooling pumps and fans , compressor,vacuum pump, ect if the power gos out UPS units will keep the PC and mach3 controll powered for over 3 hours , and switch to pause ,
    , once the power comes back on , hit resume ,
    in the build up and wet season Darwin will have 3 black outs a day , most for less than 5 sec , but enough to stuff up your job

    will also try to shield most high noise items inside the case
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  3. #2
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    did a bit more on it today , wired most of it up ,lol , birds nest and now shielding the "out " cables

    i used aluminium foil tape , its quite thick left over from installing sky lights , and raped an extra earth wire around the foil , then heat shrinked the lot

    all the cable is 2.5mm^2 (stiff stuff) salvaged from house power point wire , the low voltage side wire is salvaged from a PC power supply
    there's a large earth terminal block screwed to the underside of the box
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  4. #3
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    got the power supply box all closed up and bolted in , the 3 power plugs are for the spindle water pump and cooling fans ,dust extractor ( small cyclone vacuum cleaner ), + 1 more
    was hoping that a very small compressor would be adequate for a mist cooling set-up , will have to look when the unit turns up ,
    only have 1.1 amp left ,so might rewire the internals to put the 3rd plug on the other line ,over 3 amp free on that line

    started on the internal wiring , most of the long high voltage wire's / spindle out wires , will travel under the floor of the box , i have a 15mm gap between the floor and the out side of the case

    got the stepper controller , 5v & 12v bolted in , i removed the floor under the stepper controller so air can escape from the heat sink ,lol, ,l i only need the the 12v to power fans

    got chased out of the shed tonight by the bugs , gotta love the buildup , and the termite queen fly nights ,
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  5. #4
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    Boy, you've been busy. Wish I had your ingenuity, I'd save a fortune!
    Pen Affair Craft Supplies - Cheapest Pearl Ex & Pemo Polymer Clay in Australia
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo View Post
    Boy, you've been busy. Wish I had your ingenuity, I'd save a fortune!
    The ingenuity only follows after a fair bit of study Russell. Sawdustsniffer must have a reasonable background in electrics / electronics to do some of the things he does.


    Quote Originally Posted by SawDustSniffer View Post
    and raped an extra earth wire ...
    But he also gains points for some strange sexual proclivities.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson View Post
    The ingenuity only follows after a fair bit of study Russell. Sawdustsniffer must have a reasonable background in electrics / electronics to do some of the things he does.
    yer "Dicksmith kits" when i was a kid , lol , in the 70's i was 10 getting 240volt kits for xmas , i think the "Nanny State people " have banned the sale of 240volt kits now ,

    the old dicksmiths kit instructions were great , explained what gates were in the chips and why they used them , and then my dads policy of let the kids destroy any equipment before dumping it also helped ,down to waring rubber gloves , and opening up capacitors and unrolling them to find there????"al-foil and wax paper"??? we even pulled a 202 red motor out of the tip so we could pull it apart , lay it out on the shed floor , understand how it works and dump it 2 weeks later in bits ( free entertainment before computers ?//)

    a good "pay out" on site to "Sparkys " is " you have no understanding of basic logic " ,
    once you understand TTL logic gates , the little black things with silver legs and numbers on top dont seem hard to use at all

    and typo's are typo's dam spell check

    the best advice i can give Boomer is the " twisted complimentary Pair " if you twist a "Direct current(DC)"+ and - wire around each other you will minimise magnetic interference , as long there is the " same" amps flowing in each wire , one positive one negative , there magnetic fields will cancel each other out and protect each other from out side interference ( almost) , so your stepper A+ and A- should be twisted together inside the box , and B+ and B- twisted , just keep 240volts way from low voltage wires ( dont bundle them ) , and cross them at 90 degrees , if its got an earthed , metal cage around it , its shielded
    twist any "complimentary pair" in side the box , search the forum for " inside case" photos , and look for twisted cables ( 2 only )

  8. #7
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    Default bits are turning up

    today my 12lt/min 240 volt water pump turned up , as well as my Mist Cooling head , ( on top of the radiator )

    the water pump looks the business , complete over kill in size , i need about 3lt / min to cool the spindle , so most of the excess water pumped will recirculate through the radiator ( back ground in photo )

    the sticker on the pump it says 0.4 amp at 35psi , 12lt/m open flow , so will have to test its flow and Amps at 20psi

    cool a 0.6Amp bonus , i was expecting the water pump to drain at least 1Amp of my 3 Amp left over of the spindle line ( 7 Amp spindle ,10amp fuse )

    the 3rd , 45amp solid state relay has 2 out put wires , one go's to the VFD spindle controller , the other to the cooling pump + cooling fans on the radiator (240 volt fans ) , on the face plate of the PC case will be a Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) switch , that will let me select ,
    (A) Mach3 control ,
    (B) , OFF ,for probing , one of the 2 " 1/8 jack " out puts on the front face of the PC cabinet , will be the probe jack
    (C) , Manual over ride ON ,
    if the VFD is on the cooling pump is running
    same with all the 3 of the 240 outputs on the back of the case
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  9. #8
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    And you learnt all this from a few Dick Smith kits eh?

    Bob Willson

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson View Post
    And you learnt all this from a few Dick Smith kits eh?

    Bob Willson
    lol and tinkering , learnt respect of high voltage and magnetic interference from making Tesla Cannons , lol it fired 150mm round bore casings into trees , very dangerous , start the generator and in 5min it will fire ( you have ran away from the tailer mounted cannon ) 3 garbage can capacitors full of aluminium foil and gladrap , and used rat traps as switches do not build one dangerous as all crap , lol was running it at 120kv , at about 10 million Jules, even the site i posted pictures on ,had the thread removed for safety concerns , a 10 foot fibre glass pole with a shorting out rail at the end was a must , the capacitors would charge them self up with no power connected , if they didn't have the shorting straps between the terminals

    did electronics at school but that was pretty basic

    carpenter by trade , but cant resist looking how a LNG gas plant is wired up when working there , just what parts they use , the screening ( fire proof ) , ect

    now I like to use the new ( last 5 years )" basic programmable boards" , program them via a USB , and after there unplugged they run the program , the "Carmelians" i have have 32 out puts , you can use them as you like , each pin can be digital or analog , in or out , and can bundle the legs up as 4bit , 8 bit ,16 bit ,32bit in or out , there fantastic to use , VB interface and all

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SawDustSniffer View Post
    lol and tinkering , learnt respect of high voltage and magnetic interference from making Tesla Cannons , lol it fired 150mm round bore casings into trees , very dangerous , start the generator and in 5min it will fire ( you have ran away from the tailer mounted cannon ) 3 garbage can capacitors full of aluminium foil and gladrap , and used rat traps as switches do not build one dangerous as all crap , lol was running it at 120kv , at about 10 million Jules
    And yet, you live to tell the tale! Your VFD turned up yet? Mine arrived a couple days ago and I picked it up today.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo View Post
    And yet, you live to tell the tale! Your VFD turned up yet? Mine arrived a couple days ago and I picked it up today.
    no , not yet , good that yours arrived , NT is normally 4 days later than east coast , hope 3 days cince your out of a capital

    NT stands for , not today , not tomorrow , next thursday , next train ??? Never Turned up ????

  13. #12
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    if you doing some wiring you should " understand " a few things

    ohms law Ohm's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iangle.svg.png just need to remember this triangle
    this is a great way to remember it , you need 2 measurements to work out the 3rd
    so V = I*R
    I = V/R
    R = V/I
    if you had an LED that needs 20milliAmps to light up and were running a 5 volt circuit then the resistance needed to obtain 20milli Amps would be R=V/I , so 5volts /0.020 amps = 250 ohms resistance

    wire type , there are 2 parts to a wire , the wire and the insulation
    the wire gauge will allow amps to flow , insulation will keep volts contained
    so with Amps worry about the thickness of the copper cable , with the volts ,its the thickness / quality of the insulation ,
    if you make your own wires on a circuit board , amps is how wide the strip is , volts is the spacing between the strips

    when a wire transmits a" electrical potential " it will form a magnetic field around its self , it has to form this field witch takes time and energy to form , and when the electrical potential stops , it will decay and form electricity back into the wire ,
    this is called " inductance " ( why leaving extension cords coiled up is bad )Inductance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, this decay of the magnetic field happens faster than it formed and can produce a "spike " of up to 1.4x the voltage that made the field , if your running 48volts , you need atleast 1.4x more voltage rating on the components

    magnetic fields around wires is well know with the "left hand rule "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_rule , dont have to read it , just know it happens

    so now you know every wire is forming , and collapsing its own electromagnetic fields around its self , these fields can interfear with other wires , ie a 240volt light cable running along side a Z axis 5volt limit switch wire , , the 240 volt 50Hz wire can produce a current in the 5 volt limit switch line , if the "interference " boarders on the " cross over voltage " ie 2.9 volts , you will get an intermittent "glitch" that is a bugger to track down

    the BOB says its 0volts for off , 5 volts for on , ( not quite )
    you will find 0-2.7 volts is off , 3-5volts is on ,

    on outputs wires the interference wont do much ,might make the steppers run a bit rough with a 50hz buzz ,that will cause harmonic problems and will lower your top speed

    with inputs it could run amok and cause all sorts of havoc

    so electromagnetic shielding comes into play , basically if you put a metal cage around it , the magnetic fields will deliver there intermittent currents to the metal , and if that cage is grounded , it wont build up a voltage
    Electromagnetic shielding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    also a component that dosnt draw the same amount of electricity all the time , will have its input wires changing amps all the time ( stepper motor drivers ) , this causes the magnetic field around the wires to collapse , regrow , collapse regrow ect , so your nice out put from a power supply gets less volts and more volts from the magnetic fields growing and collapsing as the amps change in the wire , Sub woofer car audio nuts put huge capacitors on there amps for this reason and stepper motor controllers should have a capacitor across there + and - terminals as well (must have with switch mode power supply's , transformers dont really need them )

    Your filter capacitor on your power supply is determined by your power supply voltage and current.(80,000 * I) / V = C ,
    ie (80,000"magic number " times "Amps " divided by "voltage " equals the capacitors size
    , and the voltage rating of the capacitor should be above 1.4x the voltage of the power supply

    this capacitor will then deliver the voltage and amps direct to the board , the capacitor will absorb the fluctuating current , and the input wires will have a lot more stable flow through them , keeping the voltage and amps where they should be

    there are a few other problems that can sneak into a TTL( 5volt data) amplified circuit ,
    one is voltage drift , where a wire that is OFF slowly starts to gain "elections " and its voltage rises , untill it opens an "amplifier/ gate" then drains ,and shuts the "amplifier/ gate" down again ( intermittent problem ), to make BOB's built proof , connect a 1M ohm ( 1,000,000 ohm) resistor from each output to ground , there is so much resistance in a 1M ohm resistor it will only drop the voltage on that pin by less than 0.1 volts , but will ground out any small rise in voltage when the pin is off

    the next worst problem is " debounce " , any input into your bob , has to be debounced , when any switch contact comes close to closing , small arc's start to form , the closer they get the more they arc , until the 2 surfaces of the switch contact each other , TTL ( 5volt Data) will interpret this as the switch being pressed a heap of times , not once , so a small circuit has to be added to put a time period of the first arc , 1/100th of a second works well , as soon as the first arc happens , a circuit board , holds the 5volt data line "closed " for 1/100 of a second , so only 1 contact is registered every 1/100th of a second

    1/2 way down this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch

    hope that helps some people

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SawDustSniffer View Post
    lol and tinkering , learnt respect of high voltage and magnetic interference from making Tesla Cannons , lol it fired 150mm round bore casings into trees , very dangerous , start the generator and in 5min it will fire ( you have ran away from the tailer mounted cannon ) 3 garbage can capacitors full of aluminium foil and gladrap , and used rat traps as switches do not build one dangerous as all crap , lol was running it at 120kv , at about 10 million Jules, even the site i posted pictures on ,had the thread removed for safety concerns , a 10 foot fibre glass pole with a shorting out rail at the end was a must , the capacitors would charge them self up with no power connected , if they didn't have the shorting straps between the terminals

    OK ... I think I'll be moving a bit further away from you. Darwin to Brisbane doesn't seem quite far enough.

  15. #14
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    still waiting on parts , the Ghan turned up yesterday so should get a heap of mail today , pretty well come to halt until more parts arrive

    so got back into my CAD drawing
    i purchased Turbo Cad , with the CAM plugin , and have started my first project , lol , learning CAD as i go ( slow )

    lol my 1st cad / cam / cnc project is a tough one , it has to be done and i set the bar pretty high
    " A mould for a Carbon Fibre Violin "
    top and bottom Plate moulds , Rib mould , Neck Mould , Finger board mould

    the material will be HDPE , carbon fibre resin dosnt stick to HDPE ( polished )
    will machine some MDF test peace's first to check code , and i need a copy of the mould in MDF to use as a vacuum holder , to cut out the shape and F holes

    100 points by a 100 points in the mesh , thats 10,000 Z heights have to be entered ( each z height dragged and dropped ) use the snap settings and quite rough at the moment , will have to zoom in and go through each mesh point and raise the accuracy to 1/100th of a mm
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  16. #15
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    You don't do things by halves, do you? And TurboCad is still going? I think I remember trying it back in the DOS days? Aspire is my one & only CNC program. It cost a oretty penny, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do something this complicated. I was also considering Rhino3D for full 3D models, but I'm still trying to crawl, let alone run

    Russell.
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