Thread: Importing A Chinese Machine......Roger Webb/Pacific Tooling - CNC Router

Originally Posted by cava

PM me your phone number Doug.

George

Not sure how to do that, George.

Check your inbox Doug.

Just sent you a message with my mobile number.

George

question for Cava

If Doug gets his sparkie to check over and where necessary re-wire his mill, would a certificate of compliance from the sparkie count as "certification" in terms of electrical safety?
After all, although Roger Webb may promote the machine, Doug has effectively done a one off import, so does he really need a "type approval"?

Originally Posted by Dougsshed

Just came in.......

Origin charges are as follows;
Collection of goods from Shipper to depot – USD430.00
Documentation charges – USD155.00
Loading charges – USD50.00
Ocean Freight from Qingdao port to Melbourne port – USD175.00
TOTAL – USD810.00

The collection of goods fee strikes me as high but there's not much I can do about this now.




As a matter of interest, Roger recommended a shipping agent to me but their quote was higher than my shipper and they wouldn't have got me the refund of Import Duty. (Or, it occurs to me, maybe someone has found a way to pocket that refund on the side, as it were. All this time, I have assumed that my shipper was doing a better job than other shipping agents when maybe Roger and his shipping agent have an quiet 'arrangement'. After all, what agent wouldn't know about the Free Trade Agreement that China has with Australia??? This is what qualified me for the Import Duty refund.).

H'mm, I've never bought anything that wasn't FOB, the actual ocean freight charges have always been invoiced as a separate item, but no on-shore Chinese costs. Containers out of Qingdao always take an age to arrive as well, generally around a month! One shipment that I followed from there dropped in to multiple ports further South, then discharged my load in Singapore where it was loaded on to another ship 3 days later. This ship then made multiple stops before finally getting to Melbourne. I guess that's why it takes so long.

So it appears that Roger Webb either gets his margin direct from the Chinese factory or Boost International is his Chinese based company. Would be interesting to know what the machine would have cost if purchased without an intermediary. It does seem that direct purchase from a factory with a good record is the best way to go.

Originally Posted by ian

question for Cava

If Doug gets his sparkie to check over and where necessary re-wire his mill, would a certificate of compliance from the sparkie count as "certification" in terms of electrical safety?

No.

After all, although Roger Webb may promote the machine, Doug has effectively done a one off import, so does he really need a "type approval"?

Legally? Or what I would do?

Originally Posted by aldav

H'mm, I've never bought anything that wasn't FOB, the actual ocean freight charges have always been invoiced as a separate item, but no on-shore Chinese costs.
So it appears that Roger Webb either gets his margin direct from the Chinese factory or Boost International is his Chinese based company.

This is curious, a search for "Boost International" returns

Company Information
An Expert Maker of High-performance Inflatable Items
Boost, with a factory located in Shandong Province which is near to Qingdao and Tianjin Ports, is one of the solid names in China as far as the design and production of high-performance inflatable items for disaster relief, emergency, military, industrial, architectural, aerospace, entertainment and advertising applications are concerned.

Wide Product Range to Choose from
We manufacture a wide range of products destined to different markets: shelters and tents for rescue, disaster release and military camps; the civil protection, decoy and bunkers for the military simulation and paintball sports; soft landing systems for the arrest of falls from height, used in construction, civil engineering and sports; rafts for the navy and the professional and leisure navigation; and items for the advertising and entertainment markets such as billboards and costume blimps.

I can't see CNC machines or Laser engravers / cutters or lathes on that list.

It would be interesting if the company's bank details

City of Bank

No. 253 Shifu Rd., Shenhe District
Name of Bank
Bank of China Shenyang Branch

match those on the invoice paid by Doug.

Perhaps, Boost International purchases the CNC machines already boxed for shipment from another manufacturer.

Originally Posted by aldav

Would be interesting to know what the machine would have cost if purchased without an intermediary. It does seem that direct purchase from a factory with a good record is the best way to go.

Perhaps not. Direct purchase still has the issues of Electrical compliance, which is essentially Doug's problem.

Originally Posted by cava

Legally? Or what I would do?

Basically I'm trying to understand the rules.
If I purchase a 2nd hand Bosch washing machine with a burnt out motor, which I replace with a motor from an LG washing machine, the Bosch washer is obviously no longer configured in accordance with it's type approval.
Now is what I have done "go to jail" illegal, or can a qualified person -- e.g. an electrician -- check the wiring and confirm that the unit is electrically safe and therefore "fit" to connect to the 240V network?

Originally Posted by ian

Perhaps not. Direct purchase still has the issues of Electrical compliance, which is essentially Doug's problem.

I was speaking from a financial perspective.

Lets face it, there's heaps of electrical work performed illegally in Australia (every time an unqualified person rewires a plug for instance). From the point of view of the person operating the machine the most important concern is whether the machine is properly earthed. Any 'test and tag' operator can tell you if the machine is electrically safe to operate.
No person doing a one off import of a machine for their own use is very likely to want to apply for electrical certification. Of course, it's different if you're importing equipment for resale, in which circumstance you may be considered very unwise to fail to ensure that the machine complies with all the appropriate standards.

Originally Posted by ian

Basically I'm trying to understand the rules.
If I purchase a 2nd hand Bosch washing machine with a burnt out motor, which I replace with a motor from an LG washing machine, the Bosch washer is obviously no longer configured in accordance with it's type approval.
Now is what I have done "go to jail" illegal, or can a qualified person -- e.g. an electrician -- check the wiring and confirm that the unit is electrically safe and therefore "fit" to connect to the 240V network?

This is a very grey area but from a legal point of view, any electrical change or configuration from when the appliance was first certified, must be notified to the electrical certifying authority as a modification and backed up with a test report from a suitable testing facility. Replacement of like for like parts is not an issue and is obviously acceptable.

In reality, in your example, charges are unlikely to happen and there are probably thousands of similar 'safe' modifications in homes across Australia.

Apart from the electrical safety aspect to the user/home owner is
1. the potential feed back into the house wiring affecting another person or appliance in a different location, or
2. the appliance holds a charge similar to the old CRT TV's when the appliance is unplugged (I have experienced this with a simple halogen light), or
3. fire hazard, or
3. Electromagnetic Compliance is compromised affecting other electrical appliances many meters away from the source (I have heard stories of airplanes being affected)

George

Originally Posted by cava

Apart from the electrical safety aspect to the user/home owner is
1. the potential feed back into the house wiring affecting another person or appliance in a different location, or
George

George, I have a Ryobi Scroll saw that causes problems on the TV, when I use it, is that a form of feed back?
If so, how would I rectify this problem, if possible?
Thanks
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

George, I have a Ryobi Scroll saw that causes problems on the TV, when I use it, is that a form of feed back?
If so, how would I rectify this problem, if possible?
Thanks
Kryn

This is caused by the arcing on the brushes and is usually fixed by having a pair of capacitors wired across the brush connections. Yours may have failed or may be non-existant, but in either case the repair would require significant electrical ability and knowledge so I would not recommend attempting it unless you are really sure about what you are doing.

An alternative fix may be a suppressor filter/adaptor which mounts into the powerpoint and you plug the tool into it. I haven't seen one of those for sale for a long time.

These days TV interference filters are almost exclusively blocking interference caused by mobile phones.

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

George, I have a Ryobi Scroll saw that causes problems on the TV, when I use it, is that a form of feed back?
If so, how would I rectify this problem, if possible?
Thanks
Kryn

Kryn, what you describe appears to be Electromagnetic interference.

As there are so many variables involved, I cannot with any certainty advise a fix. That stated, it probably is something simple like worn brushes etc.

If you find a simple fix let us know..

Thanks for the advise Bohdan and George. Will let you know what I find out.
Kryn

Hi everyone.
Well, the saga (regarding the electrical safety of my machine at least) is finally over. As you will know from the earlier comments in this thread, I was deeply concerned about the electrical safety of my machine when I noticed that there was no mains earth. Roger Webb had told me that no Australian electrical certification was required because the machine wasn't made in Australia. Because of his attitude, I had placed this matter in the hands of Energy Safe Victoria and they conducted an investigation on my behalf. They told me that Roger Webb had absolutely denied owning any part of Pacific Tooling or it's other trading names. This was in direct conflict with has assurance to me that he and his wife owned Pacific Tooling. I have this very clearly stated in an email from him so he is now self condemned as a liar on top of all his other shifty practices. He said, therefore, to Energy Safe that he was simply a facilitator to the sale between me and Pacific Tooling and had no responsibility for the safety of the machine.

Anyway, whilst I did not have access to Energy Safe's correspondence, they must have given the Webbs an ultimatum because they came back to me with the news that they had had a conversation with the Webb's lawyers and shortly after that I received a call from Maria Webb saying the she was very sorry that I had had a problem with the electrical safety of the machine and that she was very keen to have the problem resolved as soon as possible. Unlike previous conversations with Maria, this time she was as sweet as pie. She said that I should obtain a quote from an electrician to make the router electrically safe and that, once she received a copy of the quote, she would promptly transfer the amount of the quote to my account.

The electrician I chose happened to have some experience in this field and he found a number of issues.
Firstly, of course, there was the lack of mains earth. He also noted the following:

Single insulated 240V cable was penetrating through metal conductive parts without gromets or wear protections.
Single insulated 240v cables and extra low voltage cables running within the same ducting enclosure are not meeting the requirement of Electrical separation for single insulated 240V cables.
Single insulated 240v cables are not clipped securely as per AS/NZS3000 5.4.4.(c)

The control box containing 240V cabling had unsealed openings adjacent to a water pump.

As of now, I have received the quoted amount from Maria Webb and this aspect of my dealings with the Webbs (and probably all other aspects) is now closed.

Energy Safe have told me that they are seeking a full list of of machinery sold by Roger and Maria Webb along with the names of their customers. They have also told me that, where necessary, other regulators in other jurisdictions will be notified.

Maria Webb also told me that they had had 'many problems with Pacific Tooling. They never owned any part of Pacific Tooling. They have now stopped selling anything from Pacific Tooling.'
Roger has not contacted me at all and obviously doesn't think an apology is due. He has left his wife to do the unpleasant stuff. I think this reflects the type of man he is.

Thank you all for following this saga. I hope that, although the Webbs have stopped trading in Chinese machines, anyone who reads this will learn some valuable lessons from my experiences.

Bye for now!