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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default Looking for a Mill to convert to CNC

    Hi All,

    I'm looking for a Mill to convert to CNC. The size of mill I'm after is around the Sieg X3 size, and around $1500 for the manual mill.

    The X3 is very popular for this sort of conversion, so is one of the mills I'm considering.
    M153 | SIEG X3 Mill Drill - Geared Head | machineryhouse.com.au

    Another mill is the Titan TM20V.
    Titan Machinery - TM20V $1790.00

    I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has performed such a conversion and has advice to offer.

    The X3 has a MT3 taper. I'm not sure if this is an issue , as the TM20V comes with an R8 spindle. That said I have no tooling for either at the moment.

    The X3 is probably the most common mill that is converted, and there are a few conversion kits around for them. Promica in Melbourne do one, but they don't advertise a price, so that is always a concern. I've filled in one of their enquiry forms so I can expect a call from a salesman soon I guess.
    PROMiCA - CNCKits MX3 Kits for the X3 Mill

    Does anyone have any experience with these kits?

    I have a small taig mill that I can use for machining of the conversion parts if necessary.

    If there is a better route I should be travelling, I'd like to hear that too.

    Cheers,

    Peter.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne - Mexico
    Posts
    655

    Default

    Peter,

    1. What sort of work are you looking to run through the mill.
    2. Is size a consideration. Fit in your shop and size of table travel.
    3. Do you want to purchase a new machine over a second hand unit

    If your intention is to mill aluminium and steel, then the big consideration is for rigidity in the column. I think the X3 is lacking in this department (Maybe RodM can elaborate).

    I think the better option is the HM45 style mill as it has the square column (stay away from the round). Spend a little more for the rigidity needed. Your Titan machine is a better option than the X3

    /M

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Hi Peter,
    I have an X3 that I converted probably four or five years ago. I used the CNCFusion kit here. Buying the full kit will save you heaps of time. I did my own conversion of a X2 hybrid and it took months designing and putting it together.

    I am very happy with the mill and conversion although it is not a setup you can use to hog large chips. Compared to the Taig you will notice an impovemnt though.
    No concern about the spindle taper just get yourself a collet chuck and set of ER collets from CTC or ebay. I went with ER25 collets which gives me up to 17mm capacity although I have never used anyting above 8mm end mills in it.

    I have a full flood enclosure and use coolant for ally and steel cutting.

    cheers,
    Rod
    Cheers,
    Rod

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the input. I agree on the rigidity of the X3. I'm only considering the X3 as many people have converted them and it may be easier. If I don't use a conversion kit, then I probably won't go the X3 route.

    Cheers,

    Peter.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Hi Mike,
    You are right in what you say however the X3 cops unwarranted bad reviews on the column stiffness. In comparison to a larger mill it does lack stiffness but it is not made for hogging steel. In the same class of machine it holds it's own. A lot of impressions are becasue they don't know how to adjust the Z axis jibs properly.

    My response was around Peter's parameters in his post. There is a huge difference in size between the HM45 and the X3 and you need a fair bit of workshop real estate to house a HM45. The other issue with the HM45 is you have to start thinking servos or really big steppers to drive it. The ballscrews would need to be larger and so on.

    I am selling my HM45 to get a Turret milling machine becasue I want something stiffer and a larger cutting envelope - when does it stop.
    You could always help me out and bring your mill over on your next trip west.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Hi Mike, Rod,

    The HM45 is a little large for my shed. (Only because the 7m x 5m shed is full)

    I'm looking at the Titan VM20V as as far as I can tell it is a BF20 Mill, or Grizzly G0704.

    CncFusion indicate they have a kit for the BF20.

    Also, I notice that there a few places in Oz that sell the BF20.
    MACHTECH MD20
    McJING Tools Online
    Titan Machinery - TM20V $1790.00

    At this stage the Titan VM20V is the first preference even though it is the most expensive. It does have the longer 700mm table though.

    I'll contact cncFusion to confirm they have a kit for it.

    Cheers,

    Peter.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne - Mexico
    Posts
    655

    Default

    Peter,

    If you don't mind out-laying the cash it seems a no brainer really, especially if there is a conversion kit for the unit.

    Rod,

    Would happy to come over with the X4 but the table that its bolted to is too big and heavy for my poor car

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    I agree the TM20V is a far more capable machine

    Mike,
    You need a big 4WD don't you.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cockatoo Vic
    Posts
    996

    Default

    Peter

    I have a SX3. It was my first CNC project and basically got it because a kit was available.

    It gets used for all sorts of things but must say I would not do it if I had my time again. I would look for something better for CNC

    The table is good, Spindle OK, column too light and the Z axis ways were never intended for anything but being locked tight during operations.

    No idea if the TM20V is better, I have only seen the pictures.

    Greg

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the input. I can't find a cnc conversion kit for the TM20, but there is a lot of information around on the BF20 so I'm thinking of giving it a do.

    Still need to do a bit more research.

    Cheers,

    Peter

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    549

    Default

    I have the TM20V - it's a BF20 / G0704 type clone.
    Be aware it's a different base casting so kits may not work. The column mounts on top of the base rather than bolting in from the back.

    I got mine with stand thrown in, however it has an english power plug. Finish quality is not great and it has some wonders of stupidity like a heatsink on the electronics box that means you can't actually tilt the head because the heatsink hits the Z carriage.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply. It's very useful information. Did you get it from Titan?

    Also,ow do you find the rigidity of the mill?

    At this stage I'm not completely committed to the TM20V, and I'm open to other suggestions. I like the 700m table length. I can get a FB20L from McJing for about $500 less but I'm not sure of the quality, and Sydney is too far to travel to have a look.

    I'm certainly open to other suggestions. I don't think I can go much larger in size, due to space limitations.

    As to the conversion, It does not look too bad from what I've researched. I should be able to make the plates, etc on my Taig mill.

    Cheers,


    Peter

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Hi Greg,

    From research on trhe CncZone, The TM20V is a bit more rigid than the X3 as the later uses an open channel for column, whereas the TM20V uses a box section.

    Maybe I should go back to H&F ands see if there is a slightly larger mill that is more robust.

    Cheers,

    Peter

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Peter,

    I haven't used the mill a huge amount but it seems reasonably solid for it's size.
    I picked it up from Titan Machinery and found the owner decent to deal with. It is obvious that it is a cheap chinese mill however (as it seems with all these clones) and for maximal accuracy will probably require work on the gibs and ways.
    It is loud with the metal gears (I probably need to get some more grease) but will probably convert to belt drive at some point (way too many projects on at present though, just bought a laser cutter, cnc router needs a rebuild and I'm looking at CNCing the mini lathe !)
    FYI I got the first of the TM20V with the long table (700mm) for $1690 including stand. I'm sure you can haggle a bit on the list price.
    The photos on the website are not accurate for the new model (they are of the old 500mm table model) - the base casting is significantly different. The column mounts on top of the base, not to the back. Also the electronics box is directly mounted to the head, not on a lever. (At least these differences are present on my machine)

    Cheers,
    Nick

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Glenbrook NSW Australia
    Posts
    705

    Default

    Hi Peter.
    I have been down this path using a H/F hm45 and converted it.
    On reflection if I was to do it again I would go down a different path and build a mill from scratch, You might think that it to hard but it is all off the shelf parts and assemble which you have to do anyway by the time you strip down and remachine the mill you have bought. Not much left original on it now, only the slides and there crap.
    I am looking at doing this and replacing the 45 with one that has a larger work area and a smaller foot print.

    Just a different way to look at what you want in the long run.

    Russell
    Chinese made mills.... A lot of lemons in that fruit bowl
    vapourforge.com

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