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Thread: stepper motor use.
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20th January 2018, 04:49 AM #1SENIOR MEMBER
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stepper motor use.
I have a 2 amp, 12 volt bipolar stepper I would like to use on my lathe cross slide. Simple operation just continuous clockwise and switchable continual anti clockwise to wind a cross slide.
The stepper: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-2A-4...72.m2749.l2648
Youtube has several videos showing how to wire a stepper without a controller, similarly there are several text explanations all basically the same just using a 12 volt supply and a capacitor. I have tried every wiring configuration without success with just four wires but can't get the thing to move. Any tips?
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20th January 2018, 06:32 AM #2SENIOR MEMBER
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If you want full control cheap and easy, I have used this little control board for a couple of different projects - DIN Rail Step Pulser :: Step/Servo Controllers :: Motor Drivers & Controllers :: Welcome to Ocean Controls
They have a few different flavors depending on your requirements - Stepper Drivers :: Motor Drivers & Controllers :: Welcome to Ocean Controls
Probably the easiest solution.
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20th January 2018, 09:51 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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Most seem to be 20 volt, I'd prefer 12 volt because I already have a 12 volt supply to my lathe, and of course it all means beans to me anyway.
I took a guess and guesstimated this one would do the job, correct? And of course it has pretty pictures on it.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Single-A...53.m2749.l2648
Also trying to keep costs down because I'll probably have to try a few before finding options that work together and will actually drive the cross slide.
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20th January 2018, 10:44 AM #4Woodworking mechanic
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Just a thought. From the diagrams i’ve seen using a capacitor, the 12v voltage supply is AC not DC. The capacitor is just used to change direction.
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20th January 2018, 03:48 PM #5SENIOR MEMBER
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You had me thinking then, but on checking all the steppers on ebay are DC, perhaps the steppers on youtube are AC. Would be a bit odd though. I just had another look, the transformers in the videos don't have rectifiers so the output would indeed be AC. Does that mean a DC stepper can't work without a driver/controller?
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20th January 2018, 05:53 PM #6Woodworking mechanic
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For a stepper motor to work, it needs to have the coils “pulsed”. Lots of good info on the Web. This is just a brief note.
https://electronics.stackexchange.co...dc-or-ac-motor
More detail
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...tepper-motors/
cheers
BTW the only experience I have with steppers are DC pulsed idle speed motors and EGR motors
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20th January 2018, 08:07 PM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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The links I posted earlier were for a controller and for the driver as you will need both (unless you have an external controller: pc with the correct software and parallel port or a circuit board with pulse & direction outputs)
Not sure if the driver is ok that you linked to, as I haven't used one of those particular ones - but to drive it you will still need some sort of pulse and direction control.
The signal part of the driver on that link will require an enable signal, pulse signal and direction signal.
Stepper motors are not as simple to drive as a DC or AC motor but have the advantage of precision control.
From what limited experience I have, the stepper motor driver gets a DC input and provides a stepped output. My CNC is running 48V DC input into the driver which produces the square pulse output per step. Step is a repeatable measured movement so can calculate pulse input to movement output, etc.
It's easier to change a DC supply to a square wave form rather than use AC in this case - AC would require a recifier/inverter combo to change the wave form.
Are you after measured control or just basic movement?
What size NEMA frame is the stepper you have?
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21st January 2018, 08:09 PM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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DC12 volt, 2 amp, 2 phase, 4 wire, hybrid, Nema17 stepper motor. All I need is constant rotation, forward/reverse and I'll also be adding speed contol. I'd prefer no controller just to keep it as simple as possible.
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21st January 2018, 08:36 PM #9Woodworking mechanic
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Have you tried AC yet?
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21st January 2018, 10:36 PM #10SENIOR MEMBER
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It's a DC motor!
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22nd January 2018, 07:07 AM #11Woodworking mechanic
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Did you read the links I posted? If you want to use DC, then it will have to be pulsed ie. a square wave, which is what controller boards deliver. If you connect it to a standard DC supply, all you will feel is resistance to rotation if you try to rotate the armature by hand.
I dont know what part of OZ you are in, but if you where near me you could bring it around and hook it up to my power supply, which can be either DC or AC, and we could test the question “Will a DC stepper run on AC?”
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22nd January 2018, 09:29 AM #12
Stepper motors are exactly that - they step XX deg per pulse depending on the design. In order to step they have multiple windings, the windings have to energised with a pulse in the correct sequence in order for the motor shaft to rotate.
The confusion about DC and AC comes from the fact that when you switch a DC voltage from off to on and then off again you create a square wave. This preoccupation with AC and DC when applied to a stepper is technically wrong if you confuse AC with AC mains sinusoidal waveform or a distorted version of that.
You don't apply a mains 50hz or 60hz AC signal to a single winding of a stepper motor - it won't move. You apply a DC pulse, it doesn't have to be a square wave, and you apply a DC pulse to each winding in the correct sequence to match the type of stepper motor, the type of winding configuration and the rate (frequency) to match the speed you wish to rotate the shaft.
Various winding configurations and stepper designs can give you the options for various step sizes and torque trade off's in a given project- based on how you pulse and configure the motor windings,.
Capacitors are crudely used to supply a pulse as they discharge into the winding with out causing a constant voltage across the winding - which would stall (Hold) the motor and could burn out that set of windings if the current is to high. Depending on how they are used they can severely limit the rotational speed and step accuracy (stall during a step cycle).
The simplest way to get accurate and reliable operation is to use a tiny controller that allows you to connect switch for: Direction and Pulse (step). To make it a continuous movement you need to supply a pulse train to the pulse (step) input, the pulse train frequency determines the speed of rotation. You can get the two thing separately or in some cases combined. Or a PC or small micro controller to supply the variable pulse input and direction latches to the tiny controller (driver) .
The maximum speed that a stepper motor can turn at is determined by the Load (twisting force) applied to the shaft, the rating and design of the motor. If you exceed the motor ratings it will start to miss step (skip steps). This can happen at low speeds and therefore counting XX pulses for a selected shaft position will fail.
Most precision applications will require a Digital position sensor (feedback) to verify the motor has indeed moved to the requested position.
NOTE: The above is a simplified version of a stepper motor - That means it DOES NOT APPLY to every friggen stepper motor, controller or user situation over the past 1000 years on this planet.(1) Our small workshop layout __ (2) Bandsaw circle cutting jig __ (3) Spindle sander modifications __ (4) Dust Sensor
(5) Router table redesigned ____ (6) DC and where it all began __ (7) Bandsaw dust extraction build
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22nd January 2018, 10:02 AM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks gents, you managed to confuse the heck out of me. No idea what you're talking about!
A tip: when someone asks a question it's generally because they don't know the answer. If they don't know the answer you can probably bet they don't know a lot about the subject matter.
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22nd January 2018, 11:47 AM #14
Don't worry about the technicalities. You have a stepper motor, decide what it is you want to do with it and see if it's the best choice.
Most people use steppers because they can be easily controlled in tiny increments (steps) via a simple driver board by a PC or other micro interface or accurately move a slide mechanism X amount, if the correct motor is selected and a good driver board used (not a cheap Youtube cap drive) then they can step without skipping and can be used to make a simple repeatable movement device.(1) Our small workshop layout __ (2) Bandsaw circle cutting jig __ (3) Spindle sander modifications __ (4) Dust Sensor
(5) Router table redesigned ____ (6) DC and where it all began __ (7) Bandsaw dust extraction build
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22nd January 2018, 12:09 PM #15SENIOR MEMBER
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I have decided what I want to do with it, constant revolution, forward and reverse. I did some more experimenting this morning with a 12 volt battery, connected two wires to a 12 volt battery the other two to a 220 cap and discovered if I tap the - or + battery post with the cap the shaft moves a step at a time. Still can't get it to continually rotate though.
Seems to be some trouble accepting that a stepper can be used in this manner without a controller, so to that end, here you are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCpj0V5BsY
Looks like the same motor as mine but obviously the power supply is AC. And he's using it in the manner I want.
Still confused, not a clue.
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