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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    193

    Default Tips for Newbie Huanyang VFD users

    Hi Guys
    Well, building and operating a CNC router is certainly a learning curve - in many new areas.
    i realise that for gurus like Rod and greg, this might be a little bit like teaching your grandmother to suck eggs, but nevertheless, here goes with some salutory lessons that I have learnt during the past two days.
    As I have already explained in another post, I 'upgraded' my Bosch die-grinder to one of those Chinese spindles.
    i purchased a Huanyang HY0D523b 1.5kw VFD inverter and a 'matching' air-cooled spindle from Aoran Bai in China.
    Price was quite good and so was delivery - all arrived with nothing broken and very well packed for transit.
    After seeking and getting advice (very good advice) from Greg, I contacted my local electrician who professed to knowing about VFD's and arranged for him to do the wiring.
    All went coparatively well until we fired up the beast. The spindle only turned very slowly - I would estimate at about 200 to 300rpm - and then after only a very short time - about one minute or less, smoke started coming from the spindle and when we switched it off it was extremely hot - too hot to touch.
    Oh, Oh.
    My 'sparky' started to look very worried, and proceeded to check his wiring. All wiring appeared to be correct, so we 'read' through the very sparce 'manual' for the VFD which I had to download from the web as nothing came with the machine.
    After reading the manual, and altering all the parameters that were indicated, and re-checking the wiring, with great trepidation we started the machine a second time.
    This time, we managed to turn it off before we got any smoke, but the spindle was VERY hot in only a matter of around 30 seconds.
    At this stage, my 'sparky' threw up his hands and explained that he did not know what else to do.
    In desperation, we turned to the CNC forum, and after some searching, found an article hidden amongst the other gems which talked about over-heating of these machines.
    Eventually, we worked out what needed to be done, and this necessitated changing a couple of parameters that ARE NOT INDICATED CLEARLY IN THE MANUAL.
    After doing this, the spindle worked perfectly.

    So - for the possible use by any others about to venture down the air-cooled spindle route, here are the parameters that need to be changed on the VFD BEFORE you attach the spindle and turn it on.
    Parameters need to be changed in a specific order, not simply p1, p2, p3, etc.
    First:
    Change PD001 Source of Run Commands to '1'
    Change PD005 Max operating frequency to 400hz
    Change PD004 base frequency to 400hz
    Change PD003 Main frequency to 400hz
    Change PD006 Intermediate frequency to 2.5
    Change PD008 max voltage to 220v
    Change PD009 Intermediate voltage to 15v
    Change PD010 Min voltage to 8
    Then..............
    Change PD011 frequency lower limit to >100hz
    *** This is the most important parameter for air-cooled spindles and is what will determine whether you burn out the spindle or not.
    What is not documented and is crucial, is that the internal fan in air-cooled spindles DOES NOT START IF PD011 is set for less than 100hz.
    To be completely safe, it is probably better to set this for something like 120hz - doing so only chops off a few revs at the bottom end of the scale and will ensure that the fan works every time you start the spindle.
    I can see now why you guys like the water-cooled versions, but after sorting things out, the spindle is now running smoothly and I don't have to worry about coolant, etc.
    Finally, Change PD142 rated motor current to as high as you can (the inscription on the motor says 8amp but the PD142 will only go to 7.
    The Change PD143 Motor pole number to either 2 or 4 (4 is the factory setting and seems to work OK), then
    Change PD144 Rated motor revolution to 3000 - (when you multiply this 3000 by the Min voltage of 8, you get the top speed of the spindle - 24000 revs.
    After thi, it should be OK to attach the spindle to the VFD and turn it on. best of luck.
    Anyway, as I said, this is probably old information, but I had some trouble tracking down all the individual bits - particularly the bit about fans in air-cooled spindles not working under 100hz, so if this saves someone 'smoke', I guess that it is worth repeating here.
    Cheers
    Noel

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moss Vale NSW
    Age
    73
    Posts
    317

    Default

    Noel,
    Thanks for all you effort in bringing all this necessary information into one place.

    I have a 1.5kw air cooled spindle and VFD on the way from China and had not even read any of the Huanyang manuals, so not only is your info brilliant for my spindle, but very timely as well.

    Cheers,

    Alan
    4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,764

    Default

    Hi Noel,
    I have a different VFD (Fuling) and didn't have the problems you had with you air cooled spindle.
    Very good fo you to document this for others.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cockatoo Vic
    Posts
    910

    Default

    Definitely not a guru Noel. I have never even seen one of these Huanyang VFDs.

    Rod you did not have any issue like Noel described, is that because your fan is shaft mounted?

    Sound like Noel's is an electric fan and needs 100hz or so before it will start blowing.

    Really would help if these Chinese spindles came with some documentation.

    I am off to the "Manufacturing Week" exhibition today. Get to look at all the big boys toys.

    Greg

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,764

    Default

    Hi Greg,
    My fan is electric same as Noel's.
    The specs for the motor say 6000 to 24,000 RPM so if your at 400hz for 24,000 that would be 100hz start up speed. This fits with what Noel is saying.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cockatoo Vic
    Posts
    910

    Default

    Oh I thought Rod's was direct drive fan. Are all the air cooled ones forum members have been getting, electric fan?

    Pics of a router I saw at the show today. Australian made I think.

    Greg

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,764

    Default

    A bit small for my needs.
    Would hate to see the price list.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    victoria/hughesdale
    Age
    57
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Try having a look at the multicam guys, now those are a machine ! Use to work for them.
    Worked on the old machines that they made right up to the current models.
    They certainly have evovled over the years.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moss Vale NSW
    Age
    73
    Posts
    317

    Default

    Hi Noel,
    My VFD & spindle arrived from China this morning. I don't know why you said that the VFD did not have any manuals ... mine had a very comprehensive 78 page manual, the only difficulty that I am having with it is that it is written in Chinese! Yes, so I will revert to the English version from the internet as it may save me a bit of time with my Chinese/English dictionary!

    My VFD casing sustained a bit of superficial damage en-route, but as long as the innards are OK I will be happy. I did note that the control panel is removable from the casing. Does this mean that with an extended cable I could mount the VFD control panel on my main machine control panel and then just put the VFD out of sight somewhere?

    Also, I am sure it has appeared in another post, but could you tell me what each of the connections mean ... R, S, T, P+, PR, U, V, W, chinese squiggle.

    The top of the spindle has a 4 pin plug ... can you tell me what each of these connection are?

    Many thanks. I will now have to get my finger out and finish the rest of the table so I can get the thing working. BTW my cable chain arrived from China yesterday, so that it one more thing ticked off as well.

    Alan
    4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    193

    Thumbs up

    Alan
    It really annoys me when we purchase items in good faith, only to have the sender let us down with poor packing, etc. - I would have been pinged off about damage to the spindle - have you emailed the seller and let them know? - soem of the sellers are quite good and will replace items if damaged.
    Anyway - on with things;
    Question 1; Yes, if you are good at soldering leads, you can extend the control ribbon for the VFD control panel and then site it wherever you want for convenience.
    Question 2:
    R, S, & T are the terminal inputs for your AC power. If your spindle will be running from a standard Australian 240v supply, just connect the two wires to R and T, and omit terminal S, which is the third input for a Three-Phase supply.

    U, V, & W are the output terminals for your spindle. It does not really matter which wire goes to which terminal. If you get it wrong, the spindle will run in reverse. If this happens, just swith over two of the wires and the spindle will run the correct way.

    'Chinese squiggle' is the earth terminal and is where you should connect the earth wire from your 240v input. You might notice two other 'earth' points on the plastic case inside next to the connectors - as far as I can determine, neither of these are connected to ground and should not be used for earth.

    Pr is the connector for your braking resistor and is not required for your installation.
    P+ is the connector for a Dc reactor and is also not required for normal installations.

    I don't know about the four terminal points on the top of the spindle - mine only has three and they connect to the U, V, and W terminals. If you have four, I can only presume that one is for a braking connector, but as far as I have been able to ascertain, 1.5kw spindles don't normally have that requirement.
    Try connecting three of the terminals only and see what happens.
    The fourth pin may be an additional earth, which would be rather nice, as I had to earth my spindle using an external connector.
    Hope this helps - just remember - set the PD011 parameter to at least 100hz before trying the spindle or the fan will not start and you will burn out the spindle.
    keep me posted.
    Cheers
    Noel

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moss Vale NSW
    Age
    73
    Posts
    317

    Default

    Thanks Noel,
    All questions answered perfectly ... I think that you are fast becoming the Air Cooled Spindle Guru!!
    It was good to ask these questions and get the answers in this particular thread, as I am sure the info will be of great assistance to other spindle newbies.

    Thanks again,

    Alan
    4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
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    Default

    Hi Alan,
    Just in case the fourth pin is an earth run a continuity check between each pin and the case of the spindle to see if you get a connect. Might get a little tricky if you connect one of the live wires to an earth.

    My 1.5kw spindle had a four pin connection but the fourth pin went to air so only three of them were usable. You should get continuity with a meter between the three live pins so you will know which 3 of the four to use.

    Due to inconsistencies in the plugs I would check all the new spindles just in case.

    I am not a sparky so I am not telling you how to connect up the spindle and only how to test to identify the connections so anyone feel free to jump in if I have misstated anything here.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moss Vale NSW
    Age
    73
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    317

    Default

    Hi Rod,

    I did take a peek under the top plate of the spindle and the 4th pin definitely is not connected to anything. It is just a matter of leaving it like that or making an earth connection out of it. Greg I think is suggestion that it should be run to earth and I think I agree with him ... all that metal and all that electrickery around I think an earth could be beneficial!

    Cheers,

    Alan
    4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    3,764

    Default

    Hi Alan,
    Greg gave me the same advice and I reckon it was a good idea too. I ran a separate large earth wire to the spindle mount as I didn't want to drill and tap into the spindle.

    The electrical enclosure I got had an RCD in it which I ran all my electrickery through so I figured I have reasonable protection. As a matter of interest my house has an RCD and when I do a test on the machine RCD it triggers the house RCD so it looks like it wasn't necessary at this location - maybe in another location where there is no RCD it might be usefull.
    Cheers,
    Rod

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elimbah QLD Australia
    Posts
    63

    Default RCD's

    Hi Rod and others,
    Just remember an RCD is only as good as the earth it is connected to so you must check the earth if you are using a three pin plug and lead to a power point from the RCD.

    Now I am with you Rod I am not an electrician either but an electronics guy for 30 years and I have seen commercial sites that have had problems only to find NO EARTH in an office. The mains cable was dug up and repaired then it was damaged by moisture and electrolisis and the earth went first.

    So my point is ASSUME NOTHING TEST EVERYTHING and if in doubt get an electrician to check it!

    Electroncution tends to be permanet so be careful.

    Now I have had my rant I agree with Rod the spindle should be earthed if it has metal parts exposed. Run 2.5mm2 earth wire (yellow/green) from your spindle to your control box. You should have ONE earth bonding point in your control box. This is the earth point that the mains earth connects to, mains earth wire goes on first then any other earth wires to doors and other devices etc. Also the mains earth wire should be longer than the active and neutral wires so that if the cable is pulled through the cable gland the earth is the last to disconnect. You can have more than one erth point in your cabinet but only one earth bonding point, this should be marked with a earth symbol.

    Also just for info the British standard for safety EN60950 applied to anything sold in the EU states that the 'creepage' distance on a ciruit board is 5mm for any voltage above SELV (Safe Extra Low Voltage 42.4V) and 'clearance' is 6mm. Clearance is air gap and this is again for anything over SELV.

    hope this info is of some use.

    Cheers
    Steve

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