Thread: 6 stud toyota stub axles for trailer

Originally Posted by .RC.

I would have thought the landcruiser/patrol 6 stud hubs would be made with a lot heavier stub axle then a holden or ford 5 stud hub...Seeing the 7.50X16 tyres are rated to carry a lot more..

They can. With the 6 stud pattern, you can have axles made that have a rated capacity of 2000Kg and 3000Kg per axle. But the bearings are so much more expensive, as is the additional sized axle and heavier hubs. To give you an idea on price, a 2000Kg rated unbraked axle is 130% dearer than its 1450Kg counterpart, and the 3000Kg is 30% dearer again.

The thing with the Holden/Ford bearing'd axles and hubs is that the outer diameter of the bearing cups is the same for both, so the one set of hubs can be drilled to most stud patterns made, and then you fit either the Holden bearings, or the Ford bearings, or a combination of both (called Composite, it has a Holden inner, and a Ford outer, and is rated at around the 1250Kg mark), depending on what axle size you're running. So if you just want to match your 6 stud wheels from your 4WD tow vehicle to your current trailer axle, then all you need is a pair of hubs and new bearings and seals(assuming you've checked all the clearances to chassis and guards). You just have to bear in mind that your carrying capacity will be reduced. If you then want to carry more weight, then you have to up the axle size, and make sure the rest of the trailer is up to the task, such as the integrity of the chassis and drawbar, the springs, coupling, etc., etc.

Originally Posted by Yonnee

They can. With the 6 stud pattern, you can have axles made that have a rated capacity of 2000Kg and 3000Kg per axle. But the bearings are so much more expensive, as is the additional sized axle and heavier hubs. To give you an idea on price, a 2000Kg rated unbraked axle is 130% dearer than its 1450Kg counterpart, and the 3000Kg is 30% dearer again.

Probably be cheaper to buy some front wheel hubs from a wrecked patrol/landcruiser and turn up some spindles to suit....Spindles are pretty easy to make...I have made a few over the years...

If that's your cup of tea, by all means, go ahead. You wouldn't be the first. Particularly due to the fact that you can carry one set of spare bearings for both your tow vehicle and trailer. BUT... some registering authorities are requiring that you prove what carrying capacity your axle is, more so if you ever have an accident with the trailer where the axle breaks.

Lets face it the trailer industry is singularly price fixated. certain suppliers and manufacturers especilay, and one would not consider the trailer industry to be the pinicle of engineering sofistication.

AND

various engineers will make different engineering calls and judgements particularly when it comes to safety factors.

personaly I am unimpressed by ALCO's offerings & I'll leave that there.

The engineers at ATS have obvioulsy made (with public and products liability considerations in mind) certain recomendations, which if one were building using their components one would be wise to follow.

they have chosen to make certain recomendations, derating some of their axles with increased wheel size is one of their engineering calls.
They plainly publish a document detailing those recomendations and the reasons why.

they are not alone
if you go to www. vehiclecomponents.com and download their catalogue... on page 9, there is a detailed reference page concerning axles and hubs.

there is a tabulation of recommended loadings for axles of various sizes with various bearing arrangements.....all of those arrangements bear maximum wheel size specifications.....some of those wheel sizes specify different loadings for different wheel sizes.

The load ratings of the "Knott" branded axles are in some cases higher than those quoted by ATS and ALCO for their product. This difference is possibly a reflection of the difference in materials and engineering, and very likley qulaity control.

the vehicle components axle page is an education and shows where the limitations of the various axle / bearing combinations lie

with the holden bearing it is definitely the axle stub, with the ford tapered bearing the limitation given a sufficient axle is the bearing, with the ford parallel bearing it is the spindle but only just........but this applies to their product.

Other manufacturers may use different quality steel or whatever. But the specs are what the specs are, and I am more likley to believe the one that gives a considered engineering explanation or a solid amount of engineering data.

cheers

I have just done a complete refurb on my trailer including, white wheels/tyres,new axle/hubs,bike tracks etc........and found these guy's to be very competitive even with freight costs to Newcastle

www.marshall-eng.com.au

Originally Posted by Yonnee

If that's your cup of tea, by all means, go ahead. You wouldn't be the first. Particularly due to the fact that you can carry one set of spare bearings for both your tow vehicle and trailer. BUT... some registering authorities are requiring that you prove what carrying capacity your axle is, more so if you ever have an accident with the trailer where the axle breaks.

The ones I made were for an unregistered trailer...

Originally Posted by soundman

they are not alone
if you go to www. vehiclecomponents.com and download their catalogue... on page 9, there is a detailed reference page concerning axles and hubs.

try this link http://www.vehiclecomponents.com.au/...entdetails.asp

oh, thanks. What does this mean?

Originally Posted by soundman

Lets face it the trailer industry is singularly price fixated. certain suppliers and manufacturers especilay, and one would not consider the trailer industry to be the pinicle of engineering sofistication.

AND

various engineers will make different engineering calls and judgements particularly when it comes to safety factors.

personaly I am unimpressed by ALCO's offerings & I'll leave that there.

The engineers at ATS have obvioulsy made (with public and products liability considerations in mind) certain recomendations, which if one were building using their components one would be wise to follow.

they have chosen to make certain recomendations, derating some of their axles with increased wheel size is one of their engineering calls.
They plainly publish a document detailing those recomendations and the reasons why.

they are not alone
if you go to www. vehiclecomponents.com and download their catalogue... on page 9, there is a detailed reference page concerning axles and hubs.

there is a tabulation of recommended loadings for axles of various sizes with various bearing arrangements.....all of those arrangements bear maximum wheel size specifications.....some of those wheel sizes specify different loadings for different wheel sizes.

The load ratings of the "Knott" branded axles are in some cases higher than those quoted by ATS and ALCO for their product. This difference is possibly a reflection of the difference in materials and engineering, and very likley qulaity control.

the vehicle components axle page is an education and shows where the limitations of the various axle / bearing combinations lie

with the holden bearing it is definitely the axle stub, with the ford tapered bearing the limitation given a sufficient axle is the bearing, with the ford parallel bearing it is the spindle but only just........but this applies to their product.

Other manufacturers may use different quality steel or whatever. But the specs are what the specs are, and I am more likley to believe the one that gives a considered engineering explanation or a solid amount of engineering data.

cheers

*** post deleted, due to the fact that some of the things I wanted to say here would get me banned. Some people should stick to their area of expertise, instead of quoting website links to things they know little about, but seem to have an opinion! The problem arises when the people who are asking the question get conflicting information from those that have an opinion, and those whose field of expertise this is. ***

Originally Posted by YarrD

oh, thanks. What does this mean?

I means you can swap your 5 stud hubs for 6 stud hubs, and provide everything clears, bolt your Hilux wheels on.

Being a tandem, you'll probably have brakes on one axle, which means you'll need a pair of lazy hubs, and a pair of drum to suit the brakes you've got.

Originally Posted by .RC.

The ones I made were for an unregistered trailer...

I would like to mention here has anyone considered the offset of the rims you are about to change?

Originally Posted by Yonnee

*** post deleted, due to the fact that some of the things I wanted to say here would get me banned. Some people should stick to their area of expertise, instead of quoting website links to things they know little about, but seem to have an opinion! The problem arises when the people who are asking the question get conflicting information from those that have an opinion, and those whose field of expertise this is. ***

With all due respect.......One thing I have learned is .....you have absolutely no idea of the background or competencies of people posting on forums particularly this one.

If you are unable to post FACTS backed by manufacturers specifications and application information... you should pull your head in.......I have simply posted FACTS quoted from documents published by manufacturers as one would when doing any serious research or arguing any engineering or legal point.

If it came to a court case concerning a component failure the only leg you have to stand on is manufacturers specifications.....

if one reads the information from several suppliers and finds differeing opinions concering similar products.....one has to consider reasons, not throw ones hands in the air in a huff.

The fact remains that more than one manufacturer publishes a considered engineering opinion.....and that opinion considers wheel size in calculating axle ratings.

Unless one is a structrual engineer with specific knowelegde on the materials and processes a specific manufacturer uses and specific industry knowleldge of the applications..........one should consider the published engineering opinions superiour to ones general knowelegde or anecdotal experience.

As we may have all found, common industry practice is often not best practice.

There is no way in the world I with tell someone that they could stick larger wheels on an axle without proper engineering consideration.......not even with $6 000 000 public and products liability to back me up.

We have no idea of the brand or quality of the components in question.......in the absence of a superior engineering opinion......we have to consider the worst published case......which as I see it is ATS, and they state that an axle machined for holden bearings should be derated if it is fitted with wheels larger than 14" rims..... so they are rating their holden bearing axles at a maximum of 1 tonne with 14" or less rims, if the rims are larger they clearly state that that should be 750Kg.





Now onto the matter of rim offset.

Now because I have not seen rim offset mentioned and a load consideration.....and the load vector, the bearing outline and the rim in all cases I have seen will fall well within the footprint of the tyre.......I think it is probably safe to consider it safe that offset has either already considered in the engineering or that it is not significant.

however the HT holden wheel offset has possibly the shortest hub to rear bead backspace commonly available.
Most other wheels will protrude behind the hub considerably more..... particularly toyota.....particularly if the wheels are wider than original.

so if you put you hilux rims on your current holden axle....it is very likley they won't clear..............it would be most wise to check first.

I now this because of my current trailer project.....axle fitted by the manufactuerer sized as per HT holden offsets, hubs fitted for corrona wheels by the manufacturer and they scrubed before the prevoious owner bashed in the sides of the trailer to make them clear.

I got out some rulers and started measuring wheel backspaces and there is quite some difference.
Remember at no time, at any state of travel should tyres contact any part of the trailer structure or bodywork.



so here is my advice

determine the load capacity of the existing axles.....how, your problem.....catalogues as a guide might be valid......stamped on the VIN plate would be real good

check that you have adequate clearance for the proposed hubs......vehicle components have recommendations and a guide.....rulers will tell you the truth.......

determine the axle loadings of your trailer.

In the absence of definite information about the manucfacturer and their specifications, go with the recomendations of ATS as detailed in their link as posted above.

Hmmm......its probably going to be the clearance that will scupper the whole thing.

There are some suppliers that have reduced backspace falcon pattern rims available.

AHH now here is another complication....if your trailer has a VIN plate or specification plate on it......it will specify tyre size and profile and preasure.

So to fit other rims you will have to have it re-engineered and either and alteration plate affixed or a replacement spec plate fitted.

So it is always more complicated than it seems.

cheers

Remember to take a very deep breath Yonnee

Sometimes you read things on this forum and go or even