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  1. #1
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    Default Another coffee table

    My nephew is getting married in February, and I offered to make a piece of furniture as a gift. The offer was open-ended, and the couple decided they wanted a coffee table. Their taste runs to mid century Danish, and so I sent them a bunch of example from the Internet to get the ball rolling. They fell in love with the following design, and want it in a medium dark wood (it is going to be solid wood, so possibly Jarrah) ...





    My question is how would you build the table ends ...





    Here is similar end ...





    I would like to make the end pieces wider so that they can create a breadboard join at each side.


    Your thoughts?


    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

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  3. #2
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    hi Derek
    you sure like a challenge. I'm not sure that that design is doable in solid wood. My inclination would be board material covered with sawn veneers.
    If it really must b solid, you could make your own block board

    For the ends, I suggest a hollow turning split into 4.
    (I'm not sure if you are aware of the turning technique where 4 sticks are glued together with paper joints to make a whole, which after turning is split along the paper joins to give 4 identical quarters.)
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  4. #3
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    I can only think of three ways to achieve breadboard end type joints with enough meat to accept tenons long enough to be effective; and only two of them keep the same timber thickness throughout the curve to where they flow into the straight sections:

    1 Carve them from solid; but that would be really wasteful of timber. It might be possible to cut them out on a 24" bandsaw fitted with a 1/4" blade but I wouldn't be game to attempt it myself. The curve could follow the natural grain direction if you could find timber that was cut suitably close to the heart.

    2 By coopering thin sections and fairing them with hollows and rounds. A relatively boring but straight grained plank could be cut in such a way that the outer grain is almost continuous; essentially cutting trapeziodal shapes out of the inner side of the plank so that the outer side only loses a saw kerf's width at each join. This would be the most efficient use of timber and you could choose any length of straight section you desire. Downside would be that this might show or look a bit weird in the end grain.

    Option 3 would be to make the corner pieces follow thicker lines and say it's a "feature"! Basically I mean if the rest of the wood is 3/4" thick then make the corners out of solid timber 1-1/14" thick so that there is an increase in thickness where the straight immediately transitions into a curve. This would negate the need to waste additional timber trying to incorporate straight sections into the piece while giving a bit more meat to cut the mortise out of and allowing slightly longer tenon ends. But obviously the flow is ruined....
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  5. #4
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    Definitely no waterfall there Derek. Can't you get them to change their minds and do a mitred edge.

    Just looks a whole lot cleaner IMO. And it's still mid century danish.

    cheers.....Roy

  6. #5
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    I'm of no assistance Derek. I don't know whether you saw my thread on the table I made for my Queensland grandson's where I copied the basic design of your last coffee table? Thanks for the idea by the way. I won't be copying this one.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    hi Derek
    you sure like a challenge. I'm not sure that that design is doable in solid wood. My inclination would be board material covered with sawn veneers.
    If it really must b solid, you could make your own block board

    For the ends, I suggest a hollow turning split into 4.
    (I'm not sure if you are aware of the turning technique where 4 sticks are glued together with paper joints to make a whole, which after turning is split along the paper joins to give 4 identical quarters.)
    should have included ...

    Breadboard like stiffening could be achieved using relatively closely spaced Dominos -- and you know, you bought the machine to do your kitchen.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post

    I would like to make the end pieces wider so that they can create a breadboard join at each side.


    Your thoughts?


    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Why The "make them wider to create a breadboard join " Does David want this or is this your way of making things a lot harder than necessary ? Perhaps you see it as an easier way to do the joinery or / and the glue up ?
    The original as it is in the picture is much more straight forward to make and glue up without that.

    Rob

  9. #8
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    I am not planning on mitering the corners. There are a couple of ways to create rounded corners without a mitre.

    Looking at the photo, although not particularly clear, it looks like a plywood construction, and that the corners were created by steam bending over a form. Obviously, I am not planning to do that. Also, I do not plan to laminate a curve as this will not match solid pieces elsewhere.

    One way is to use a solid corner and shape the inside and outside into a curve. Care needs to be taken with the grain direction. Something like this ...



    The choice is then to either use dominos or a bread board. It should be the latter if the grain is running across the table top.

    Other ideas? Hopefully better than mine

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    I am not planning on mitering the corners. There are a couple of ways to create rounded corners without a mitre.

    Looking at the photo, although not particularly clear, it looks like a plywood construction, and that the corners were created by steam bending over a form. Obviously, I am not planning to do that. Also, I do not plan to laminate a curve as this will not match solid pieces elsewhere.
    Its not steam bent. The photo does look like its laminated like ply but it could just be the photo . Its a nice looking table . Almost looks to sharp and stylish for edge polished ply . Which is pretty ugly most of the time . Except for the right industrial look maybe .

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    One way is to use a solid corner and shape the inside and outside into a curve. Care needs to be taken with the grain direction. Something like this ...

    Yep that's what I reckon, Solid, but that picture above has the grain running the short width of the top , If it was the top . And the top has the grain running across the short way as well. Doing it solid with the grain matching the long top direction is the way .

    The corner pieces I'm talking of made up right would be fragile when made up loose and waiting to be used, but would take on a whole lot of strength once glued up into the table. The same strength as the Top Bottom or Sides once its glued up , And its then moving the same way as the rest which is good.
    You also see tables where the grain on the corners runs the short width and the top and sides goes the other way . That's weak and the easy way out I think . Some of the examples Ive seen , like the one up the top and others look like Indo cheap Teak and imported.

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    The choice is then to either use dominos or a bread board. It should be the latter if the grain is running across the table top.

    Dominos , is plenty good enough but the loose tongue glued in probably would be stronger there being no gaps. I have no idea how your thinking of using a breadboard join or a breadboard . I'm lost there ! A breadboard end on a table top and this corner piece don't relate to each other to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Other ideas? Hopefully better than mine
    You said Care needs to be taken with grain direction. Are you thinking the grain direction I'm talking about above sounds right ?
    This sort of look?
    IMG_9621.JPG


    Rob

  11. #10
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    Default An idea for construction

    If I build the corners from a solid section, it is relatively straight forward to orient the grain and then plane the inside hollow and rounded outside. This is the picture I posted earlier ...





    The issue is how the mix of cross- and long grains would look. Very busy in my expectation.


    An idea that has occurred to me (suggested by this picture, actually) - to hide the corner being an added section - is to make the entire carcase with the grain running across, rather than than along the length. It may be possible by bookmatching to hide any joins.


    I've not seen a construction like this. Could be interesting What are your thoughts?


    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    This is the picture I posted earlier ...

    I think the pale wood is poplar and what you are looking at is the poplar core of a blockboard sheathed with sawn veneers and probably made for the project.
    this link will take you to a commercial version of the product Block Board Supplier,Wholesale Block Board Manufacturer in Bijnor India
    another example https://www.jacksonsart.com/jackson-...iABEgLvbfD_BwE


    An idea that has occurred to me (suggested by this picture, actually) - to hide the corner being an added section - is to make the entire carcase with the grain running across, rather than than along the length. It may be possible by bookmatching to hide any joins.

    I've not seen a construction like this. Could be interesting What are your thoughts?
    funny that is what I was thinking earlier today

    the sub-frame would support the lower shelf, and I think the top shelf would be strong enough.


    However, I still think that veneered blockboard is the way to go -- and you could make your own blockboard
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  13. #12
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    Duplicate post deleted
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  14. #13
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    Just looking at this design gives me a headache. What appears so simple for a non-woodworker is a bloody nightmare when aware of the level of difficulty in the construction.

    I have advised my nephew that he might reconsider a square end!

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  15. #14
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    Well you gave me a like Derek so ill try and help some more.

    This type of table would have been produced in batches, in a factory , and the components just cut and stacked following a set of steps. Its a matter of working out the steps and keeping in mind the best orientation of the timbers.

    Running the grain across the short distance isn't the answer.
    If you wanted that look then a final veneer going that way on top of mdf , blockboard , chipboard , or , not the ideal Ply even . With the edges being covered in veneer first.
    Grain going across the short distance in solid would not be done in a smart cabinet workshop, everything needs extra support or sitting on it will break it . Or warping will kill it . And it will be expanding and contracting down its long axis so your getting maximum movement. Not good.

    You need a table saw with a tilting blade.
    A spindle moulder would be good or an inverted router or even some round and hollow moulding planes could do the internal hollow.

    What I think is a good way of doing a one off piece like this is to cut the end sections out of a board , cut its angles for gluing then its internal hollow , add a glue block to the back for in line clamping . Take that off later after the glue up to round the outside.

    The grain of the end piece meets the solid side and top as end grain to end grain .Which is what I drew here.

    IMG_9621a.jpg

    This is taken from a board across its width. I started wit a width of 650 and drew it two ways , at its right. The one with the tick is good and the crossed out one is not as good.
    There are three options with grain but ill just stick with no 1
    IMG_9615.JPG

    Below. I first drew it coming out of a 50 mm board finished at 45mm thick. Then realized it will come out of 38mm dressed down to 30mm or 29mm as I measured it here. This gives a 1/4 of a 90mm diameter round. Or a 45mm radius.

    This below has to be drawn up full size to the same dimensions or what ever you like and photo copied or traced so copies can be stuck onto the ends of the sections to be machined.
    IMG_9616.JPG

    Below,Ive left out the drawing of the corner arc (good enough name for it?) and just shown the cutting steps. The rectangle needed in the above drawing is 29 x 70 , below Ive drawn it at 30 x 70.

    So you cut and machine a board , or glue up some boards and machine down to 500 which is to long x 650 x 30 and cut off four 30 x 70 strips across the grain. NO 1 ( do some extra ones)

    No 2. cut off the 45 degree sides , The accurately stuck on pattern is showing the way.

    No 3. Machine the internal hollow. spindle moulder , router , rounds and hollows or what ever.

    No 4. cut top angles .

    No 5. Make up 4 x 650mm long pine glue blocks and glue them to the back of the corner arcs.
    You could glue them on before cutting no 4 and do it at same time or just do it later.
    IMG_9618.JPG

    Below.With these made up ( Again do a couple extra ) you can now shoot the edges to be joined and domino them.
    Paper could be used in between the glue block, But , if to much pressure is applied when clamping that could break off prematurely during the glue up. Disaster!
    Just a pine block and glue will chisel and plane off with ease when all is dry.
    The pine glue block is there to give perfect in line clamping pressure while glueing up.
    There is nothing so satisfying as perfect in line clamping.
    It gets taken off after all is dry and the final outside corner arc shaping is done, sanded and ready for polish.

    IMG_9619.JPG

    Below is why the corner arc doesn't work as well coming out of the board the other way. The crossed out drawings in the first picture.
    Thicker wood, 50mm machined to 45mm is needed for the same 45 radius not drawn in drawing below.
    Its only advantage is that the corner block is part of it from the start if this 31 mm radius is done from it.
    IMG_9620.JPG

    Drawing the thing up is the key to getting it right. So the plan of it can be stuck on one or two ends of the 650 long blanks . Its stuck on just to get the machining cutting right. A great way of doing mouldings as well . I do it all the time that way when it has to be right . A compass, set square , pen and some white out as well was all that was needed .

    Rob

  16. #15
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    Hi Rob

    Thanks so much for the effort you have gone to.

    This is what I also thought to end up with ...


    Another coffee table-img_9621a-jpg


    Another coffee table-img_9619-jpg


    I can shape this with a table saw and hand planes (perhaps - see below).

    The question is whether one uses a single section used across the width. That is easier to shape with hand planes as one is planing long grain. However this may create a sectional look.

    The other way is to join together sections, as you show, to have the grain running into the the top. Looks better, but more work to shape, as planing across the grain. Perhaps not such a big deal.

    Worth thinking about.

    Thanks again.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

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