Thread: Coffee table - legs to rail attachment

Originally Posted by John Samuel

There are lots of other approaches, and hopefully you'll get a few more ideas. Just ensure the top can expand and contract a bit.

Well, let’s get started then
This is one of my preferred methods
294CCAEB-0222-4604-856A-85D47A9F3650.jpg

4 or 6 of these things, usually called ‘table buttons’ or something similar.

My other preferred method is not to fix the top down at all - just use a few guide blocks glued inside to stop it going walkabout. I know it’s probably not ideal if you have a lot of rugrats running about, or people who like to stand on furniture, but I usually don’t fix them down and it’s never been a problem.

I like your table and I also like the simplicity of quartersawn ash/oak.

Cheers
Arron

Ps. Apologies if my pic ends up upside down - nothing I do stops it.

If you use the method I posted to attach the top, you might want to use a router to put a profile on the edge first. I usually do, but make sure you leave room to countersink the flat headed screws (called button screws, amongst other things).

The similar method you mentioned is one I once used a fair bit. Usually, it was a bit of 25 mm X 25 mm timber screwed and glued to the top inside of the rails. Oversized holes were drilled through this and the top was screwed to this member. This method is better if you want to keep the edge of the top close to the frame. If the edge of the top is to protrude from the frame by a fair amount, I use the method posted earlier.

The pic is of a 2,400 X 1,200 table I cut down to 1,650 X 1,000 for my son. You cant see it, but the top is attached using the method posted earlier, and the frame sitting on the rails has the same edge profile as the top.
Tims Table.jpg

Arron, thanks. I am trying to keep it simple though it has required some restraint. My mind is full floating tops and inlay... I was originally going to taper the legs but when I had a look at the whole thing sitting together they looked delicate enough as is.

The method in the upside down picture (it was still easy to understand) for attaching the top is similar to the original way I was considering. I hadn't thought of screwing on the flat piece that goes into the rails but that would be much simpler than making one piece. Also I wondered if rather than putting grooves in the rails I could glue a small piece to them and have the grooves in that. As long as the groove is deep enough it should be the same. Basically it means if I stuff up then I haven't stuffed up on the rails.

I didn't even consider the possibility of not connecting it. Interesting. It's only myself and my daughter and she's 14 now so it won't be under a lot abuse. Our place is really small so we don't really have people over either.


John, I must have misunderstood the original method you mentioned. I thought you meant a block glued to the rails with an oversized hole drilled through and a screw into the top. That seems the simplest way but the prospect of drilling into the top is nerve racking. You meant a frame on the rails and the top attached to that? The top overhangs the rails but I don't know how much to be honest.

Getting back to it this afternoon and will have a look and a think. Thanks guys,

mary

Originally Posted by Mnb

The method in the upside down picture (it was still easy to understand) for attaching the top is similar to the original way I was considering. I hadn't thought of screwing on the flat piece that goes into the rails but that would be much simpler than making one piece. Also I wondered if rather than putting grooves in the rails I could glue a small piece to them and have the grooves in that. As long as the groove is deep enough it should be the same. Basically it means if I stuff up then I haven't stuffed up on the rails.
mary

Glueing blocks to the rail is a good idea. Hadn’t thought of that. I suppose you don’t even need the groove, the force is all upwards not downwards. Just have the wooden tab bearing on the bottom of the glued-on block. Simplified even further.

Ultimately it doesn’t matter how you do it, the main thing is you just don’t want the top fixed rigidly to the rails because of the expansion/contraction thing.

No it doesn't matter, you're right. I do like knowing the options and thinking about it though. It's ultimately more satisfying for me and in the long run it will make me a better woodworker.

Good point that the tab can sit below the glued on block. Making the buttons from one piece or gluing rather than screwing the tab would avoid using any metal which I'd find satisfying. I like it actually.

It will probably come down to how I feel at the time.

I think screwing the tabs on is significantly better. Means you can remove the top if need be.

Furthermore, because the bottom of the block attached to the table top is a little above the top face of the groove (or bottom face of the block attached to the rail if that’s the way you want to go) then the tab is kind of ‘spring loaded’, so you can adjust the force by turning the screw.

See your point.

Originally Posted by Mnb

John, I must have misunderstood the original method you mentioned. I thought you meant a block glued to the rails with an oversized hole drilled through and a screw into the top. That seems the simplest way but the prospect of drilling into the top is nerve racking. You meant a frame on the rails and the top attached to that? The top overhangs the rails but I don't know how much to be honest.

Mary

Been at the farm for a few days ... hence the slow response.

Yes, you make up a rectangular frame ... like a web frame ... so it overhangs by 20-30 mm ( or more for a large table). This is glued and screwed to the rails (aprons). Then countersink holes are placed with a spader bit or similar, followed by drilling oversize holes or slots. You then screw directly into the top.

Your call entirely which method to use. I find the table buttons often come loose and because I dislike maintenance I avoid them. You can buy metal brackets that do the same job as table buttons. So long as the top can move a tad, you'll be fine.

I haven't done a great deal the last few days anyway. Took my daughter to the show (Royal Melbourne) and yesterday was her birthday. I find it hard to believe I have a 15 year old. Still I remember feeling the same thing when she was 9 and I will be saying the same thing again I'm sure. I digress.

I will probably stick blocks on the rails and screw through them into the top but the discussion got me thinking. Though I hadn't looked into it, the times I remember seeing it talked about in woodworking magazines seemed to focus on the button idea or the Z and figure of 8 clips. There are actually so many possibilities though. You could even do little sliding dovetails ...

Sanding at the moment. Well I got sick of it and started rounding the outside of the legs a little. I'm using a spokeshave (another of the finds from dad's shed I cleaned) which is fun.

Have a good day,
Mary

Ah ... a fifteen year old daughter. I remember it well ... perhaps painfully well. The good news is that my only daughter turned back into a human being when she was about 16 or 17, and what a delightful young lady she turned out to be. A few weeks ago she was looking at her own eight year old daughter and told me she knew the universe was going to get even ... that her girl was almost certainly going to be "feral" for a while once the hormones kicked in. Then she threatened to send her daughter to me for a few years,

As for the top, you'll figure it out. It's not a big deal which method you choose.

Make sure your daughter visits regularly during your granddaughter's teen years. We live next door to my parents so they get to enjoy watching the payback. I have a great deal of sympathy for them since I was far far worse than my daughter.

Rounding the legs was a failure. The first looked good, the second looked good, both together looked like the legs of those white plastic outdoor chairs

Blocks can be a bit fiddly. Have you considered an approach that, I think, was mentioned earlier. Screw and glue 18 mm X 18 mm timber pieces on the inside top edge of the rails (aprons). Drill oversized holes through these members and screw through them into the top. Again, use button (flat headed) screws or similar so the top can move when it wants to. I made some coffee tables this way when I was a novice. Because I was ignorant about wood movement, I did not use oversize holes, but 15 years later everything is fine.

I got lucky. I used low movement timber and because the tables are not very wide there will be minimal movement.

Originally Posted by Mnb

Make sure your daughter visits regularly during your granddaughter's teen years. We live next door to my parents so they get to enjoy watching the payback. I have a great deal of sympathy for them since I was far far worse than my daughter.

All three of my kids live in the Brisbane area, and I see them and my grandchildren regularly. In fact Danielle's kids regularly stay with Poppy overnight, and the older boys come to the farm with me where we hunt, mend fences and generally do boy stuff. As is so often the case, they are well behaved for Poppy, and save their evil moments for their mother. Is that perhaps a law of the universe? Actually, Danielle was not a hard case as a teenager, even though she did have her moments. The granddaughter in question, however, is a horse of a very different colour. Danielle was not joking when she threatened to send her daughter to Poppy for a few yeas. She was hoping (or perhaps, praying) that I would accept.

Originally Posted by Mnb

Rounding the legs was a failure. The first looked good, the second looked good, both together looked like the legs of those white plastic outdoor chairs

Am I reading this correctly? Did you round off the legs after the rails were attached? On how many sides?

Yes, it's absolutely a law of the universe. My daughter will actually go next door to help when she sees (out her window) mum come home with the shopping. There's still a bag on the floor here she was meant to unpack two days ago She's pretty good though really. I haven't threatened her with grandma for a few years so maybe your granddaughter will be ok as a teenager too. Sounds like you have a good relationship with the grandkids which is a great thing.


Yes. Failed to quote your reaction to stuffing around with the legs after gluing. I was going to taper the legs but I didn't think it was the right thing for them. They need something though. OK excuse done. I only rounded the outside. Since I am now over my self consciousness I will give you a laugh. I now have two legs still square, one with the outside rounded and one with a bevel/chamfer ? down the outside

(Edit:they'll be ok though)