Thread: Coffee table for my nephew

Ian, thanks for that info. I do not have the Hayward volumes, and so have not seen his method. I like the idea of a dummy matching corner to check the paring. I am not clear on #3 (a bit dim today, my last day at work this year before taking a break over Christmas and the new year. A bit brain dead!).

I have not come across anyone else leaving the mitres to the end, and few seem to manage to make the tails/pins close to the sides. Instead, they create wide mitres at the side, which looks unfinished. It is a surprisingly undocumented dovetail type.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ian, thanks for that info. I do not have the Hayward volumes, and so have not seen his method.

here are the two pages I referred to.
(my apologies, but the second pdf will need to be rotated 180 degrees)

I have not come across anyone else leaving the mitres to the end, and few seem to manage to make the tails/pins close to the sides. Instead, they create wide mitres at the side, which looks unfinished. It is a surprisingly undocumented dovetail type.

IMO not that surprising.
It's only real application is where the inside face incorporates a rebate or you want to mold the exposed edge.
In many applications, a DT joint can be concealed using
1. an applied molding.
2. a lapped DT joint that is covered by a separate top.
3. concealed miter DTs.

and a lot of the time, a maker may wish to show off their DT joints by cutting neat through DTs.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The immediate challenge is to create the curved ends. The plan is to make dovetailed corners, round them on the outside and add a filler/filet to the inside corner, which will be hollowed to compliment the outer radius.

Complicating this is the need to mitre the insides of the dovetailed ends, since this will permit the shape to flow better than butt ends. Interesting ... as I have never made mitred dovetails to date. This is going to be a steep but quick learning curve!.........................






Enough practice. Now for the real thing. A bit more of a challenge as the panels are 500mm wide.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Good Morning Derek

Looking great. Watching intently as you identify and solve design and craft issues.

One question that has me intrigued is how you will do those internal fillets behind the dovetails. These will be intensely visible in the final product, and therefore are critical, IMHO.

Several options are obvious and all hinge around handling of grain orientation:

• End grain visible - probably a little jarring,
• Horizontal grain,
• Vertical grain, or
• Both - mitred grain continuing the line of the dovetail mitre.

Then there is the craft issues of when and how you cut the curved rebate in the back of the fillet - before or after assembly and it will probably be a cross-grain cut, with inherent tear out risks. Also matching of grain, and "invisible" glue lines!

Very interesting project. It is much more complex than it looks.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Ian, thanks for the email of the Haywood sections. And my apology for not replying immediately. I've been in-and-out over the past few days. Plus dealing with a new MacBook Pro that I swear is haunted - I kid you not. It pastes text without warning. I'm taking it back today.

Graeme, thanks for the comments. The radius is more complex than it looks. One thing I realise is that the curve shown in the picture is too tight if I add a filet. Adding a filet will increase the radius at the corner over the thickness of the sides. So the end product will be "rounder". Secondly, the filet needs to be cut along the end grain to have side grain at the edges. Sawing along side grain to create the filet, which is easier to plane a hollow, will leave end grain at the sides. This will darken when finished, and stand out.

The other option is to make the round, as above, and not add a filet at all, that is, leave the insides angles square. I wonder what others think of that look?

i am now back in the workshop and hope to have the carcase done in the next two days.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek
there is another way of approaching the rounding of the inside corners.
1. join the bottom and sides using regular through dovetails.
2. glue triangular cross grain blocks on the inside of each corner.
3. shape the inside and outside curves.
4. repeat 1-3 for attaching the top to the sides.
5. glue a 4-5 mm thick edging strips to the edges of the table that (a) cover the curved bits and (b) are mitered at the corners.
6. shape the edging strips to conform to the curves of the corners.

Note that the inside bottom corners are more critical as the inside of the top corners can only be seen if someone is lying on the floor.

Note that the inside bottom corners are more critical as the inside of the top corners can only be seen if someone is lying on the floor.

Thanks again Ian.

I guess that the table were termed a beer/wine/whiskey table, then the upper corners would be especially relevant ... but then again, if you were prostate, if would be more a case of gazing blankly in the direction of the corners, than actually seeing them

Good point.

Regards from Perth

Derek

A few progress shots.

The main focus is to complete the carcase. However, to do the carcase, it is important to plan ahead for the drawer case.

The drawer case (at 10mm) is half the thickness of the carcase (20mm). The (eventual) drawer fronts (one for each side) will be the same Fiddleback Jarrah as the top and sides, and will be inset (rather than lipped). The purpose of the thinner sides is simply aesthetic - I want it to look lighter, to subtly separate it from the carcase. The drawer front will be the same thickness as the carcase, and the drawer sides the same thickness as the drawer case.

Before beginning on dovetailing the ends, stopped dados were marked out for the drawer case. The lower- and upper panels were clamped together and a MDF template of the drawer case set in position...



Marked out, chisel walls made ...



... to guide the saw cut ...



Then chiseled ..



... and routered out ...



Following the method outlined previously, the two ends and the top were joined with mitred through dovetails ...



One edge ...



.. and the other side ...



The plan now is to size the drawer case sides before dovetailing and joining the lower panel. Why the templates and sizing at this stage?

When the two ends of the lower panel have been dovetailed, the two sides of the drawer case must be fitted before the panel can be attached. In other words, these three pieces are fitted together at the same time.

Now, as the sides of the drawer case run in a stopped dado, they need to be sized beforehand. This fitting is different and far more exacting that in the typical carcase which as a stopped dado on one side only, and the dividing panels (which I term the drawer case) are slid in, allowing one to mark where the front rebates will go. In the present build, the front and rear rebates need to be determined beforehand, and cut before the parts are brought together.

The MDF template is to aid in measuring up the sides for the drawer case. This is one of the (number of) surprises of this build: it looks so simple from the outside, but when it comes to constructing ...

In the photo below, the dados are checked for size with a 10mm wide template ...



An MDF template checks the case sides are parallel ...



At the far end is another MDF template to size the drawer case sides ...



That's it for now.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Relevant changes to text made above.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek

Still watching with interest.

I had an encounter with rounded dovetails about a year ago - probably will not assist your project - so I have created another thread.
Art Deco Rounded Dovetail Detail


Cheers

Graeme

I assembled the carcase today. This began with glueing the one end and, while that dried, fitting the sides of the drawer box ...








Someone predicted that this glue up would be interesting. Was it ever.


I had this plan to glue the ends, attach the drawer box, and then simply drop the top side into place. What could be easier?


Except ... I realised as I positioned the drawer box dividers in their stopped dados - and was just about to glue in the other end - that the ends were tails and the top section had pins ... and they needed to be slid in horizontally, not vertically! The order of assembly should have been: fit drawer box to open base, add top section, now add one end and then the other.


I removed the drawer box parts, and attached the top panel to the already glued end. Lifting the top at an angle, the drawer box dividers were wiggled in. And then I discovered that they were 10mm too high!


Oh hell (or some other descriptive) .. I propped up the top panel, quickly calculated how much needed to be removed on the table saw, did both dividers, rebated the ends again ...





... it fits ... (phew)


.. up ended the monster (which weighed a bloody ton, but I was now a demon possessed of desperation strength!), glued in the last side, and squared the carcase ....





And everything is square ...





I'll clean it up tomorrow, and then start on rounding the ends.


Regards from Perth


Derek

Well, that was the last workshop related act of vertical fornication for 2018!

May I ask what glue are you using; is it an epoxy?

I should have mentioned ... Titebond hide glue.

Happy new year!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

........Graeme, thanks for the comments. The radius is more complex than it looks. One thing I realise is that the curve shown in the picture is too tight if I add a filet. Adding a filet will increase the radius at the corner over the thickness of the sides. So the end product will be "rounder". .......

Happy New Year Derek, and Every One Else.

Noted you and Chief Tiff posted at 4 am (EST) on New Years Day!

Have been thinking about the "optimal" radii for the curves on both the inside and outside corners of your carcase, and, as I think visually, did some drawings.

Attachment 447517 Attachment 447518 Attachment 447520

Visually, I think I prefer the first drawing where:

• the inside radius = thickness of the carcase timber, and
• the outside radius = double the inside radius.

The other drawings have both curves at the same radius, respectively

• rounder radius,
• tighter radius.

If you enlarge the drawings then you should be able to see my reference lines.

.....the other option is to make the round, as above, and not add a filet at all, that is, leave the insides angles square. I wonder what others think of that look?.......

If you leave the internal corner square and do a soft curve outside rounding then you will get a table edge that might look like this:
Round Dovetails 6.jpg
There should be more than enough strength in the corners with the cross grain in the dovetails and I, personally, like the tension between the hard inside corner and soft dovetail. The latter should attract a lot of interest - how did he do that ? - a design feature and conversation catalyst.

I am really enjoying your project !



Cheers

Graeme

At the 21 second mark in this profile of Edward Wohl -- a US maker -- is a dovetailed desk where the DTs have been rounded on the outside. Much as Derek has done on his sample piece.
https://youtu.be/LeNwstDAkLA?t=21